How to become vegan if you enjoy dairy and a bit of meat but want to give them up on principle?

[malificent7]

I used to be vegan 25 years ago before it became trendy. Unfortunately it was tough back then , i gad no support from family/ friends/ society and I was tunnel vision resulting in an eating disorder.
I would like to ve vegan again due to climate change and I genuinely like my veg but i don't want to become they typical vegan bore again and i like meat and dairy. Sounds a bit stupid but id like to give it another go...any tips?

@Lou573

It doesn’t have to be all or nothing OP. Switch cows milk for oat milk & cut out meat. Start to make vegan choices without denying yourself a bit of birthday cake if you want it!

This is me

When I went vegan the first time i did my research. In Japan, veganism is associated with longevity but they do eat seaweed and other non western foods.
The introduction of meat etc wrecked the quality of diets...fast food beefburgers etc and cause significant increases in cancer and heart disease.

fast food beefburgers etc and cause significant increases in cancer and heart disease

No one is saying we should be eating fast food or processed beef burgers. A steak, oven roasted chicken or fish will not cause cancer or heart disease. You need to consume vegetables and fruit too (and dairy) obviously, as part of a balance diet

The previous eating disorder is a bit of a red flag. Sometimes people use being vegan as a cover for eating a very restricted diet. I would think really hard whether that’s you, and think really hard about what you can do to stop yourself ending up there again.

I think start with as much as you can, e.g. 5 days a week, and go from there. All or nothing doesn't work for everyone.

Treat yourself to a selection box from nutcrafter creamery or similar artisan 'cheese' maker.

No one is saying we should be eating fast food or processed beef burgers. A steak, oven roasted chicken or fish will not cause cancer or heart disease

But it does.

@daisycottage if you are avoiding grains and fruit because of being pre-diabetic you probably don’t need to. Caveat of speak to your doctor obviously but Diabetes U.K. says that a vegan diet fits with their recommendations and is a healthy diet for diabetics. They also say diabetics should consume fruit and don’t need to stick to berries. The only thing to avoid consuming too much of is fruit juice and dried fruit.
You also didn’t mention whether you have an issue with legumes?

If you like Indian food, there are a lot of vegan and vegetarian recipes, and it is not as hard to cook as people think ( if you lay in the supplies). About 30 different types of daal, for instance.

Diabetes U.K. says that a vegan diet fits with their recommendations and is a healthy diet for diabetics

This is appalling advice (which I am aware of) and I honestly don't know who is signing off on this and what the driver is. Similarly official 'guidance' saying that everyone does well on a vegan diet. Have they done a serious study including all races, genetics, ages and followed them up yearly with labs throughout their lives?

The world has moved on from those days

Yes, the world has moved on, but it doesn't mean we are going in the right direction. One day there's a fad, the next it's 'debunked' and so on. Many people following the fads will suffer the consequences, unfortunately

Diabetes U.K. says that a vegan diet fits with their recommendations and is a healthy diet for diabetics

Maybe check whether in other countries type 2 diabetics are advised to eat potatoes, bread, legumes and fruit. They are not

@mustlovegin take it up with their scientific advisors if you think you know more than them 🤷‍♀️

Just cut back, be vegan mostly - the planet is helped by lots of small changes. Plus remember than vegan isn't necessarily more planet friendly, you need to choose good options (eg almonds and avocados are particularly bad).

I cook vegan food 1-2 times a week, veggie 1-2 and have locally reared meat on other days. My local veg box and local meat has the fewest food miles!

You may find you drop all animal products after a while at home but have them occasionally out, this is quite common

@mustlovegin

Diabetes U.K. says that a vegan diet fits with their recommendations and is a healthy diet for diabetics

Maybe check whether in other countries type 2 diabetics are advised to eat potatoes, bread, legumes and fruit. They are not

What countries are you thinking of? Because this is not the advice in Canada, Australia, Germany, USA…

@mustlovegin how is it appalling advice when it’s based on peer reviewed science? There’s the article I linked above plus:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153574/

“The benefits of all types of vegetarian diets in the prevention and treatment of diabetes have been well established. Clinicians and healthcare providers should feel confident in recommending a vegetarian diet to their patients who have pre-diabetes or T2DM. However, the type of foods that should be consumed while following this diet is critical to achieve the therapeutic effects. As Satija et al. demonstrated, a vegetarian diet that is high in unhealthy foods such as refined grains, saturated fats, and added sugars is positively associated with T2DM compared to a vegetarian diet with lower amounts of these nutrients. The foods that are important to consume while following a vegetarian diet for treating diabetes are whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, and unsaturated fats. Each of these foods has functional components that reduce the symptoms of diabetes. For these reasons, clinician knowledge and patient education is extremely important to ensure the adherence to a healthy vegetarian diet. No matter the type of vegetarian diet followed, there are therapeutic effects. However, there is evidence that a vegan diet has the most benefits for reducing the fasting plasma glucose levels of persons with diabetes and other complications, such as CVD risk. Patients should follow the diet that they feel they can adhere to best.”

@malificent7 if you want help going vegan then please join one of the supportive groups online, I’m a member of Vegan Food Uk, there are some really helpful people on there and there is accidentally vegan another group which people share knowledge of products that are vegan but not specifically made for vegans

The biggest food wins for climate change are reducing the amount of beef, lamb and cheese that are consumed. Cows and sheep produce a lot of methane which is far more potent than carbon. Cheese is worse than butter, yogurt and milk because of the volume of milk required to produce it.

If veganism is a struggle, reducing cheese consumption will have the biggest effect. If eating no meat is not possible, chicken, pork and fish are better for the environment than beef and lamb.

Food transportation has a much lower impact than adopting a plant based diet. Obviously local is better, then food transported by boat (bananas and citrus fruits for example) and nearby countries. But an avocado that was flown in from NZ has a lower carbon footprint than animal products.

Yes, the world has moved on, but it doesn't mean we are going in the right direction. One day there's a fad, the next it's 'debunked' and so on. Many people following the fads will suffer the consequences, unfortunately

Veganism isn’t a fad. It has been around for many years (googled first vegan and that was 1000 years ago)

What consequences do you think a someone following a proper vegan diet is going to suffer

mustlovegin
You keep saying how not eating meat is bad for health but you don’t say why.
Why would a meat free diet be bad for children’s health

Oh bollocks - I eat a lot more plant based stuff these days, and can easily live without milk and possibly even butter (although I would miss that), but I don't think I could live without cheese day to day! It doesn't help that the plant based alternatives are absolutely vile

@Bythemillpond

Yes, the world has moved on, but it doesn't mean we are going in the right direction. One day there's a fad, the next it's 'debunked' and so on. Many people following the fads will suffer the consequences, unfortunately

Veganism isn’t a fad. It has been around for many years (googled first vegan and that was 1000 years ago)

What consequences do you think a someone following a proper vegan diet is going to suffer

mustlovegin
You keep saying how not eating meat is bad for health but you don’t say why.
Why would a meat free diet be bad for children’s health

I would have thought that widespread pure veganism around the world and throughout history would be pretty rare because humans need B12? Obviously in our developed Western world where we have an abundance of different foods it is much easier to ensure that you can get artificially added B12 or take a supplement but how did they do this over history in less developed countries if purely plant based diets have been around that long?

@Jackgrealishscurtains animals don’t make b12 - it comes from microbes in the soil which animals then get from their diet or supplements. In the past we would have got some from less clean drinking water and less carefully washed vegetables.

Why not consider being flexi?
Or Veggan?
There are no restrictions, other than what you place upon yourself. It is about choice, primarily for health, which is paramount to everything.

It truly isn't a health industry anymore more upon a commercial conveyor belt of high fats, sugars, salts, calories, bulking and filling agents to duplicate an authentic taste appeal complete with ludicrous expense.

Jackgrealishscurtains

Obviously in our developed Western world where we have an abundance of different foods it is much easier to ensure that you can get artificially added B12 or take a supplement but how did they do this over history in less developed countries if purely plant based diets have been around that long

Some mushrooms contain B12 and fermentation produces vitamin B12. Before our chemical sprays and washing of vegetables bits of soil would be in with the vegetables when they were fermented.

Veganism isn’t a new thing.

Oh dear what a shame, another thread started for tips and help that lots of us who are trying to cut back or cut out might find helpful, and it’s been overrun by arguing.

Don’t suppose there is any chance we could get back to the actual question?

@HasaDigaEebowai

If you’re vegetarian (buying local seasonal produce) and use plant milks and goats cheeses then you’re significantly reducing your carbon footprint already if going vegan is a step too far. Going vegan is generally more about animal welfare issues than environmental issues.

Not for me. I became vegan because of environmental issues. Some great documentaries on Netflix about this issue.

@Gemma2019

I have always been vegetarian since childhood and have been vegan for a couple of years. It's so much easier than it used to be and there is much more decent vegan food available now.

The only thing I really miss is a cup of tea with cravendale milk. We use oatly barista as that's about the best in hot drinks (and cashew milk for cereals) but it's not the same as a nice cup of tea.

Alpro my cuppa milk is really good in tea.