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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Court ordered supervised contact.

119 replies

Pebbledashery · 14/08/2021 15:49

Forgive me if this is a stupid question. I would put this in legal but won't get much traction. If a court order states that there is to be interim supervised contact in a contact centre, that doesn't mean that contact can take then take place outside the contact centre in the park outside??... Dd has supervised contact in a contact centre with violent, abusive father.. She became very ill after the last session as she was taken to a dirty park outside the centre.. She's approaching her next session and I have asked the centre supervisor to kindly not take her outside to the park as she's only just got better.. He's now asked for her doctors note.. Given the bastard doesn't know where we live, I have said that I cannot source redacted information at such short notice.
Am I being unreasonable? The court order states the contact is to take place in the contact centre. Not in the community. I said the only reason I hadn't said anything about the park is because DD enjoyed it, however I had to take several days off work to look after Dd when she was ill and don't want her going to a dirty park.

OP posts:

Cleverpolly3 · 14/08/2021 16:46

@Hekatestorch

Absolutely not ok, if the park isn't part of the centre. That's really, really bad if they have allowed that.

Hi Pebble

I agree with this and also am shocked it has happened because the risks of him taking her or having help to take her are greatly increased.
A contact centre has a contained managed venue for a reason. This is not it is a public outdoor space.

I would raise this as a concern for the judge as a matter of urgency. They won’t be happy if their written order is being disobeyed

Earlydancing · 14/08/2021 17:00

I don't think he's a disney dad because he took her outside. And your daughter enjoyed herself which I think is the point of building their relationship and which you approved of her having a good time with him. I infer from your first post that if she'd had her coat on and not caught a chill, you'd have been happy for her to go outside which is why you didn't complain.
You have every right to complain about things you're unhappy over but if you do it too indiscriminately, you run the risk of giving him ammunition that you're unreasonable and alienating the social workers.

Original poster

Pebbledashery · 14/08/2021 17:09

No. I don't approve of her having a good time with because he is an absolute monster. He's been found guilty of every form of abuse as well as child abuse. I do not approve of anything and I never will but that is kept inside me quietly. I just do the bare minimum and take her to contact because I am court ordered to. Simple as. I didn't complain because she had a good time and I wasn't going to be the unreasonable mother that took that away from her.. She could've enjoyed herself in the park with anyone, it wasn't because it was him. It was because its the park.. This contact isn't to rebuild their relationship.. This interim contact is just to allow her to see him in the interim whilst the section 7 is pending and a final outcome is decided.

OP posts:

Original poster

Pebbledashery · 14/08/2021 17:10

I'm fucking fuming he's asked for her doctors note via the contact centre tbh. They know our circumstances, why would they even ask this for him.. Why would they not ask him to ask his solicitor to ask mine for a doctors note.

OP posts:

Teaandakitkat · 14/08/2021 17:12

You need to focus on the fact that he left the contact centre with her and they are not sticking to the 30 minutes for you to leave ahead of him.

Don't say any more about her getting ill, that was probably just a coincidence. Stick to what you have proof of and what's really a risk to her.

SimonJT · 14/08/2021 17:12

Not wearing a coat doesn’t make you ill, a pathogen does.

The if contact is meant to happen at a certain place the person supervising should make sure they don’t leave the building/property.

CurbsideProphet · 14/08/2021 17:18

I've volunteered at a charity run supported contact centre which is obviously lower level than the centre you take your DD to. If the resident parent says the child is not to be taken outside we abide to this 100%. When it's agreed we will accompany the contact parent and child to a nearby playground, but only if the resident parent gives signed consent.

I would go back to your solicitor on this one. If the agreement from court is contact inside the contact centre then going out to play should not even be mentioned by centre staff.

GetTaeFuck · 14/08/2021 17:21

The contact centre should NOT be allowing him to leave the building with her! I’m fucking gobsmacked at this.

No. No more contact until another contact centre has been found, as this one is useless

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 14/08/2021 17:22

Forget the coat and getting ill
But remind the contact centre that the court order states in a contact centre not outside and you don't consent to contact in the community
That's all you have to say.

GetTaeFuck · 14/08/2021 17:22

And use that as the reason, not her being ill.

Your only valid legal objection is that the contact centre of not fit for purpose as they allowed him to leave the building with the child.

ThinWomansBrain · 14/08/2021 17:22

I think you need to pick your battles - going out without a coat, whether the park is dirty doesn't seem to be the real issue, also not possible to prove that either was the cause of your daughters illness.

Focussing on the harder issues

supervised contact IN the centre, not wandering off unsupervised to a random public park
not reasonable for you to produce a doctors' note

would probably get you further in terms of getting the contact centre to supervise the visits properly

Original poster

Pebbledashery · 14/08/2021 17:30

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Forget the coat and getting ill But remind the contact centre that the court order states in a contact centre not outside and you don't consent to contact in the community That's all you have to say.

I've literally just said exactly this to them. Contact is in the centre and not the community. Outside would suggest the community. I don't give my permission for that. She's also referred to DD as "his child" in one of her messages to me.

OP posts:

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/08/2021 17:31

@Teaandakitkat

You need to focus on the fact that he left the contact centre with her and they are not sticking to the 30 minutes for you to leave ahead of him.

Don't say any more about her getting ill, that was probably just a coincidence. Stick to what you have proof of and what's really a risk to her.

This. Otherwise you’re diluting your message. Terrible that the centre are not treating you or your dd with the care you both need.

FelicityPike · 14/08/2021 17:34

She's also referred to DD as "his child" in one of her messages to me.

Despite everything…..she IS his child. He still has PR.
I’ve read all your past posts and DEEPLY sympathise with your circumstances.
Honestly, I wouldn’t send your daughter tomorrow. Turn your phone off and contact your solicitor urgently first thing on Monday morning. This is not on.

freeingNora · 14/08/2021 17:37

So you email and copy in your solicitor "As per court order contact is to be supervised in a contact centre to guarantee the child's safety and well being please stay within the bounds of the afore mentioned court order at all times. The incident on x date was outside and therefore in breach of the court order should this happen again I will deem that you are not fulfilling either your duty of care towards said minor child or the court order and will therefore withhold said child on safeguarding grounds. For your information ex has been convicted of the following offences and therefore contact in the community carries a high degree of risk. My legal team are aware of this breach. Many thanks for your cooperation and maintaining minor child's safety and well-being at all times"

Contact centres are minefield I've had many a problem with ours

Hercisback · 14/08/2021 17:38

You're focusing on the wrong things here and it's making people stop listening to you. She didn't get ill from a dirty park, or lack of coat. She could have got ill from anywhere.

However the contact centre shouldn't be taking her to a park. Get the bit of the court order that says this and point it out to them. Stop messaging about the dirty park or coat. The doctors note is also an irrelevance. He's done it to wind you up. Most people wouldn't go go the doctor for a mild illness.

Hekatestorch · 14/08/2021 17:38

But she is his child.

Op I know he is awful and hopefully the final decision will be one that keeps him away for good.

The contact centre was wrong for letting him leave with her, if that's what's happened.

But you are upset they were defensive, most people would be if someone called saying 'my child got sick under your supervision'. And you didn't rely get a response, because there's non to give. Had you have said 'he isn't allowed to leave the contact centre with her', they may still have got defensive, but any answer could be something you keep record of.

A contact centre is in a very difficult position. Trying to balance this.

If you aren't happy with how they are acting, you need to forget that you believe your dd got sick (because honestly, that just makes you sound like you are making things up to stop contact and won't help you) and stick to the fact that the court order was broken and your dd was at risk and contact your solicitor ASAP.

GintyMcGinty · 14/08/2021 17:43

Children do not get ill from not wearing coats.

Going out to the park will be a much better quality contact for your daughter than sitting in a contact centre.

It will take an awful lot more than going to the park to turn him into a 'Disney Dad'.

The important bit is that it is supervised.

If you want to an issue to tackle then focus on them not leaving 30 minutes between him leaving and you arriving.

Original poster

Pebbledashery · 14/08/2021 17:44

I've dropped it with regardd to the park and coat etc. I've just simply stated that contact is to take place within the contact centre and not outside as that is defined as contact in the community which is not what is court ordered.

OP posts:

Original poster

Pebbledashery · 14/08/2021 17:45

@GintyMcGinty

Children do not get ill from not wearing coats.

Going out to the park will be a much better quality contact for your daughter than sitting in a contact centre.

It will take an awful lot more than going to the park to turn him into a 'Disney Dad'.

The important bit is that it is supervised.

If you want to an issue to tackle then focus on them not leaving 30 minutes between him leaving and you arriving.

But going to the park is not what is court ordered.. That's the issue. Whether its better quality or not. If that's the case then I can start deviating from the court order too and pick and choose what to do as that's essentially what they are doing.

OP posts:

RightYesButNo · 14/08/2021 17:50

@GetTaeFuck

And use that as the reason, not her being ill.

Your only valid legal objection is that the contact centre of not fit for purpose as they allowed him to leave the building with the child.

Exactly this. OP, I’ve seen your past threads, and I realize you’ve escaped horrible abuse, and I know those feelings of being abused don’t just go away over night. While I know your daughter’s illness was real, I wonder if you thought you had to have another “justification” to keep her away. You don’t. Even if she was happy and healthy after, you are within your rights to report this contact centre to the appropriate authorities and refuse to return to it. They allowed your child-abusing XH to take her into the community unsupervised. What was their brilliant plan if he didn’t bring her back? Wring their hands and say they were sorry? Because that would be so far away from good enough. Especially as I seem to remember your daughter is too young to call you or find you or have her own cell phone.

I’m afraid I don’t have wonderful advice. I understand not wanting to break court order, especially while you’re waiting for a decision in your favor, so it’s up to you if you think you can somehow mitigate the danger tomorrow, and contact your solicitor first thing Monday.

Ginger1982 · 14/08/2021 17:56

@GintyMcGinty

Children do not get ill from not wearing coats.

Going out to the park will be a much better quality contact for your daughter than sitting in a contact centre.

It will take an awful lot more than going to the park to turn him into a 'Disney Dad'.

The important bit is that it is supervised.

If you want to an issue to tackle then focus on them not leaving 30 minutes between him leaving and you arriving.

So they should just breach a specific court order? I don't think so.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 14/08/2021 18:00

By bringing the cold/park into it you've muddied the issue and given him ammunition to argue with you. That's why he's now asked for a doctor's note. Just refer back to the court order and be a stuck record.

Eralos · 14/08/2021 18:02

You don’t get sick from not wearing a coat, sicknesses like colds are viruses so how can not wearing a coat cause a virus? It’s an old wives tale.

But yes he shouldn’t take her out of the center. Good luck op.

lunar1 · 14/08/2021 18:03

I wouldn't sent her again until I'd had a written guarantee from the Centre that they will abide by the details of the court order before she goes back.

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