Ethnic minorities...

[PatricksRum]

Do you answer monitoring questions e.g. What is your ethnicity?

It still makes me feel very uncomfortable and I refuse to provide an answer as I probably will be treated differently.

YABU - I answer
YANBU - I also refuse

I do, even though I know I won't be.

I'm an immigrant and Polish ancestry but a 'perfect' accent so no one knows. Which means people say a lot about Polish people in front of me

Diversity monitoring forms are completely anonymous and not used for filtering candidates etc anyway, so I'm honestly unsure how you would believe that you might be 'treated differently' upon completing them?

@MrsNeilGaiman

I do, even though I know I won't be.

I'm an immigrant and Polish ancestry but a 'perfect' accent so no one knows. Which means people say a lot about Polish people in front of me

I know what you mean about the accent.

An accent covers everything.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Diversity monitoring forms are completely anonymous and not used for filtering candidates etc anyway, so I'm honestly unsure how you would believe that you might be 'treated differently' upon completing them?

Where did I mention candidates?

I call 111, 119. They ask. If I answer correctly I fear being treated differently.

An accent covers everything.

It's true.

All monitoring needs to be entirely double blind and externally done.

So your issue is with the handler's potential subconscious bias then, rather than the fact that diversity monitoring exists for completely innocuous reasons.

That's fair enough I suppose. Disabled people often feel the same way about disclosing their disabilities, even though there are significant practical reasons for doing so.

I hate asking the question at work. We are charity funded though and our funders ask us to get this information so they know what kind of people we help. So we have to ask.

Theres absolutely no way you would be treated differently by my organisation OP. Why would you be?!

Last time I was asked I said human “oh, so you don’t want to answer?”

Today 10:15 DeflatedGinDrinker

Theres absolutely no way you would be treated differently by my organisation OP. Why would you be?!“

In which case, why does it need to ask?

In which case, why does it need to ask?

Because charitable and third sector organisations need to compile statistics so that commissioners know who the service is being provided to, and so that they can be sure the organisation is fulfilling it's obligations regarding inclusivity etc.

@DeflatedGinDrinker pretty much already explained this?

I used to volunteer for a charity in inner London where we had to monitor the ethnicity of service users. It was difficult because I did understand why a lot of Black British participants didn’t want to be monitored and labelled in that way, and it was difficult to enable non-English speakers to fill in forms (tiny charity and a lot of different languages locally so translating was quite a big challenge), but OTOH the people funding us had a legitimate reason to want to check that it wasn’t being run by the white middle class volunteers solely for the benefit of them and their mates. It genuinely wasn’t - by eye you could tell that it had a completely mixed intake but proving it was a nightmare.

@PatricksRum

Do you answer monitoring questions e.g. What is your ethnicity?

It still makes me feel very uncomfortable and I refuse to provide an answer as I probably will be treated differently.

YABU - I answer
YANBU - I also refuse

I don't disclose anything in the monitoring questions, I always select the "prefer not to say" option.

I had to challenge a HCP on this recently, when I went for my 2nd covid19 vaccine u had selected the "prefer not to say" option, the HCP crossed it out and ticked my ethnicity in front of me. Her reason, "oh they keep reporting that there's a low vaccine take up in your ethnic group, but I want to show this isn't true", I made her get another firm and start again.

I answer the ethnicity but refuse the gender if it has anything other than male or female.

I answer the ethnicity but refuse the gender if it has anything other than male or female.

Don't hijack a thread where people are discussing potential racism for other issues.

if we want them to continue to fund us we need to gather the statistics they want.

It makes me so angry that people are still worried about being treated differently once they’ve disclosed their ethnicity. I’m not going to sit here and say it never happens, because we all know in some circumstances it does, and it’s shit.

I know that most organisations are asking because they want to understand their client base, who to aim services at, which groups funding is being spent on, etc. All seem reasonable enough reasons to ask, and at an organisational level, maybe that information is used for the purpose for which it was collected, but unfortunately between the client and the organisation there is sometimes a total racist arsehole.
Until society grows up, many people will never feel comfortable disclosing.

It's good for data collection

I have never minded ticking the box but to be honest my name gives away I’m not white European anyway. When it comes to accent I was born here and speak with a RP accent. I have had people say you don’t sound Chinese to me on the phone.

They use data to make sure they are reaching all people or to find out if they aren’t reaching some groups. It can also be used for funding and grant applications.

I don't fill it in.

As for charities needing info to collect stats - it's blatant that it's jobs for Whites at the top and normally White board members only - accessing funding by 'helping' non-White people just so charity can keep themselves in a job/money, get Diversity kudos and of course keep clawing in those funds. All very useful for them.

Aside from that I don't believe there is no bias in monitoring. There are still companies who do the monitoring yet still manage to have either no Black staff, or just a few in lower grade positions.

Anyway thankfully it's not compulsory to complete race questions

As for charities needing info to collect stats - it's blatant that it's jobs for Whites at the top and normally White board members only - accessing funding by 'helping' non-White people just so charity can keep themselves in a job/money, get Diversity kudos and of course keep clawing in those funds. All very useful for them

This is baseless nonsense.

The funding for many organisations is not predicated on precisely who the service is provided to. You have the cart ahead of the horse there. And nor is it relevant in any way to who the organisation hires, or who sits on the board/committee.

Organisations that cater exclusively to ethnic minorities, and that are staffed exclusively by ethnic minorities still carry out the exact same diversity monitoring.

DH has a noticeable ethnic accent (he is Algerian) even after living in the UK since his 20's. He sometimes puts me on the phone to deal with services and companies as he is convinced I get a better response with a standard native British accent. His English is perfectly good but it is clear he is not a native speaker.

@ClaudiaWankleman

I answer the ethnicity but refuse the gender if it has anything other than male or female.

Don't hijack a thread where people are discussing potential racism for other issues.

Thank you @ClaudiaWankleman :)

XDownwiththissortofthingX

This is baseless nonsense

That's a stupid opening line.

Organisations such as 'Charity So White' exist precisely because if what I've said, and the bias of charities who gatekeep diversity funding for gain, getting their hands on funds so that Black people/organisations don't.

Then aim to patronise, as you've just done,vwith the usual 'we know best what's good for Black people' attitude.

I look forward to the day when gatekeepers are forced out of the way and real work gets done.

In the meantime I'm ever more determined not to tick a box, particularly for fat cat charity monetary gain.

Stay there with your 'baseless nonsense' attitude. It's not all about you.

Yes I fill in the form. Most serious organisations are interested in reaching all areas of society be that by gender, race, class or sexuality. Collecting appropriate data demonstrates issues which need addressing. For example, black and asian people generally are not using national parks- work is ongoing to address this. Women do not cycle as much as men- a strategy to address issues for women are being developed. It is the accountant in me I know, but without data, these issues cannot be identified and addressed.