Ethnic minorities...

[PatricksRum]

Do you answer monitoring questions e.g. What is your ethnicity?

It still makes me feel very uncomfortable and I refuse to provide an answer as I probably will be treated differently.

YABU - I answer
YANBU - I also refuse

In local government, it's to ensure that services are targetted. So if it is felt that there is a need for a service for a particular group, those stats can be used to demonstrate the service/level of service required. The other question sometimes asked is about religious beliefs, so that local authorities know if a new mosque/temple /synagogue /specialist community centre etc might be required.

LoislovesStewie Yes, for government services it makes sense

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

So your issue is with the handler's potential subconscious bias then, rather than the fact that diversity monitoring exists for completely innocuous reasons.

That's fair enough I suppose. Disabled people often feel the same way about disclosing their disabilities, even though there are significant practical reasons for doing so.

I didn't say I have an issue.

Disabled people aren't the subject of this thread. Stop othering my feelings.

@DeflatedGinDrinker

Theres absolutely no way you would be treated differently by my organisation OP. Why would you be?!

Because I'm black.

I had to challenge a HCP on this recently, when I went for my 2nd covid19 vaccine u had selected the "prefer not to say" option, the HCP crossed it out and ticked my ethnicity in front of me. Her reason, "oh they keep reporting that there's a low vaccine take up in your ethnic group, but I want to show this isn't true", I made her get another firm and start again.

And how could she be so confident that she knew your correct ethnicity?

If I’m doing something medical eg when I’ve ordered pcr tests or lateral flow tests online and when I booked a recent smear test ( different setting to my normal GP) then I always, always do. Oh and just recalled I was asked at the opticians the other day. I think it’s important to when it’s something that could impact my health.

However if it’s “thank you for banking with NATWEST we’d love to know more about you” then I don’t.

Basically I do it where I think it is biologically necessary.

Oh and well done @NurseButtercup for challenging the hcp with the form ( hope I’ve quoted the right person). @PatricksRum is quite correct too, how did they know the box they then ticked was correct. I’m MR and you wouldn’t know by looking at me what I’m a beautiful combination of!

@DeflatedGinDrinker

Theres absolutely no way you would be treated differently by my organisation OP. Why would you be?!

Because of centuries of racism that is still happening now, even if to a lesser or less overt degree.

I do answer. I am white British, so it would not occur to me not to. I work for the police. We ask the question, but it is for statistics and to make sure certain groups are not being disproportionately victims of crime. I can however see why people would feel uncomfortable about answering the question and why they might fear being treated differently if they do answer the question. I would hope that they wouldn’t be but we all know, or should know that it does happen.

I normally tick the black box, but recently I been ticking the 'prefer not to say' box more. Because I prefer not to say what my ethnicity is.

It depends.

A firm I worked for actively binned applicants with non-white sounding names or those who ticked a non-white ethnicity, they also tried to get me and the only other non-white member of staff to be in their company pictures etc to pretend they weren’t racist arseholes, a bit like the “i have a black friend” racists.

Generally stating my ethnicity hasn’t been positive so its something I only do if completely necessary.

White - Other
Mixed - Asian and White for the DC.

(I think it's important for statistics to be as accurate as they can be).

I answer with my ethnicity but, and a huge but! I have 2 middle names one of which is an 'ethnic' sounding name and the other isn't. In the past when applying for jobs I have taken off my ethnic name from my CV or application form.

Interesting, this. I met a ceo recently who complained that most of his staff simply “Prefer not to say” and how was he supposed to make changes if he didn’t have solid data?

I can see his point but still I never answer, the question provokes a visceral, not entirely rational “Oh fuck you”.

And I’m rather heartened to hear that this is not unusual; it says something good about the way things are going, though I’m hungover so not sure what.

I always provide an answer. I find it interesting that someone said upthread they wouldn’t do it in banking (as an example).

More and more companies are attempting to collate this data on their employee groups. Why? If you can’t see the employee mix (from an ethnicity perspective as one lens that this thread is specific on), it’s very hard to understand which areas of diversity need tackling to rebalance. And therefore what affirmative action can be taken to try and redress the imbalance.

From interview pools
Through to new hires
Monitoring attention
Monitoring promotion
Diversity within teams that build tech.

And the last example brings me back to the banking example. As for years there have been huge concerns about ethical AI and the potential that it may amplify biases that already exist in the system. So if the majority of people who successfully apply for new business loans are white male. The AI could possibly amplify that bias by auto authorising applicants from that background. It’s something that is discussed and repeatedly asserted: if the core data set the AI is learning from is not diverse enough, then key elements like that must be excluded. Huge bias exists from an ethnicity lens within financial services (as just one example). So a lot of institutions are attempting to collate this data with the aim of helping eliminate such biases. (That’s the hopeful, non sinister view).

So personally as an ethnic minority who is successful, I share that information. So that banks can see someone with my ‘profile’ accessing the services I consume.

In terms of company boards there is plenty of scrutiny now being applied, starting with FTSE 350 companies. Legal and general also threw a very bold gauntlet to CEO’s / chairs in terms of board diversity. Now I’m sure for some it’s a tick box exercise, but for many, it is not. It’s going slower than any of us would have hoped, but the needle is moving.

2 years ago roughly 18% of the 2,000 staff at my organisation refuse to say which ethnicity they are. Prior to doing any serious work on analysing statistics, the top 2 tiers of leadership of 50 people used to pat themselves on the back about how diverse the place was.

Since starting to look at the data, there workforce pyramid which starts off Black at the bottom, white at the top, and lighter and lighter up you go. Even without the 18% included, it was so stark, about 80% of frontline staff are Black, while 90% of leadership are white. I'm one of the 10% who aren't.

They are now addressing this by actively advertising to attract applications from ethnic minorities, as that was another issue. Things are slowly changing, and even the 18% has reduced to 10% prefer not to say, so from my perspective, reporting on ethnicity can be a positive thing, if the organisation is serious about change.

@PatricksRum

Do you answer monitoring questions e.g. What is your ethnicity?

It still makes me feel very uncomfortable and I refuse to provide an answer as I probably will be treated differently.

YABU - I answer
YANBU - I also refuse

Treaded differently? how? Actually monitoring questions are there to ensure your needs are catered for and you are treated equally.

Disabled people aren't the subject of this thread. Stop othering my feelings.

It's a validation of your feelings.

Disabled people can relate because many of them express the exact same trepidation.

Nobody is 'othering' anything.

If a company has a workforce of 500 but less than 10% are non-White - how do they increase diversity?

Clue: Use ones eyes and also stop hiding behind useless tick boxes and bits of paper when you see and know what's to be done, ie hire more non-White people, but prefer to piss about.

Just say you want to keep it White and go

The joke is that the most senior POC in many of these corporations is the Diversity and Inclusion Director

Disabled people's views are 100% important. Particularly physically disabled They are invisible in the workplace yet the tickboxes ask about disability.

Why?

Physically disabled people aren't in the workplace because companies don't hire them. Simple as that.

Ticking boxes for years doesn't change prejudiced mindsets

@VladmirsPoutine

The joke is that the most senior POC in many of these corporations is the Diversity and Inclusion Director

🤣

Treaded differently? how? Actually monitoring questions are there to ensure your needs are catered for and you are treated equally.

Google 'Racism'

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Disabled people aren't the subject of this thread. Stop othering my feelings.

It's a validation of your feelings.

Disabled people can relate because many of them express the exact same trepidation.

Nobody is 'othering' anything.

I'm disabled also. Imagine being black and disabled.

This isn't about disabled people.

You are othering my feelings by bringing other people have into it. It isn't about them.

@DeeCeeCherry

If a company has a workforce of 500 but less than 10% are non-White - how do they increase diversity?

Clue: Use ones eyes and also stop hiding behind useless tick boxes and bits of paper when you see and know what's to be done, ie hire more non-White people, but prefer to piss about.

Just say you want to keep it White and go

Totally agree.

I'm white British...I'm happy to tick this box on forms. Not quite ethnicity but in terms of religion, I'm Jewish and am very cautious about ticking the box if questioned. I usually don't answer that question. I am also cautious as to who knows I'm Jewish in day to day life. You'd be amazed how many seemingly reasonable, educated people come out with anti Semitic comments when they don't realise you're Jewish. Shocking