If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

It is that bad. We may have reached the Point of No Return, far earlier than we thought. That said, the only thing to do is to remain calm, and do what you can to reduce your own ill-effects on the planet. Act locally, think globally, as the saying goes. We may yet survive this.

I will tell you this though...I have serious doubts that my granddaughter will live to see old age. I am not sure that my sons, in their early 40s now, will.

This is the price of putting commerce above science.

It's only a generation or two ago (my childhood in the 50s and 60s, actually) that people did live a far simpler life in terms of the disposable lifestyle that's one of the drivers of pollution. Most housewives rode a bike to pick up the groceries in their fabric or wicker shopping baskets. Children walked or rode bikes to school. Meat, eggs, veggies all were sold in brown paper wrappers, and other things in cardboard boxes. Almost no plastic at all. Cars were gas-guzzlers, but not every family had even one vehicle. Water came from the tap, and often from the roof in the form of rain water. Many people still had longdrop toilets, soap, not detergent-based stuff was used for washing, sheets were turned, towels recycled as sanitary towels or cleaning cloths after being used till threadbare. I had one pair each of sandals, shoes and gumboots. One good dress, two for school. Clothes were hand-me-downs or home made by my granny. Windows were cleaned with cold tea and newspapers, all vegetables and fruit were home-grown and bottled for out-of-season. Children learned to grow food and make compost and keep chickens. Many people raised a killer if they had a little space, and lacking freezers, they were shared among friends and family. Knitwear was made by loving grannies and aunties and carefully washed by hand. Wool was recycled when a jumper became thin. Holidays were spent with family who were lucky enough to live on farms or by the sea. Otherwise, almost everyone went camping in a sea-side campground.

I know this sounds a bit Waltonesque, or like life in the Great Depression, but everyone I know lived like this. It wasn't just because you were poor - Dad was a very well-paid professional, and mother had money. Our less-well-off neighbours lived exactly the same. It wasn't until the late 60s that the hunger for consumerism really took hold. Our carbon footprint back then was miniscule in comparison to what it is now. For a child, it was paradise, not so much for the women who had to carry the majority of the hard work. I guess no-one wants to return to those simple, "primitive" days. But there has to be a quid pro quo.

Amima I don't have a pension, either, so understand.

I will tell you this though...I have serious doubts that my granddaughter will live to see old age. I am not sure that my sons, in their early 40s now, will.

Mamanyt my DS is the light of my life, but I do wonder if I have been terribly selfish in having him at all. I feel like I am imposing on him a terrible personal future, and fear he won't even get to be the age I am now.

I can’t express how frustrating it is reading this thread and seeing some people say “iF We aLL dO oUr BiT” like that would have any meaningful impact on this unfolding disaster.

This is down to capitalism. Corporations and the powerful are the only ones who can actually mitigate this because they are responsible. That means pressuring them. Educate yourselves.

Listen, chickens, the sky's not falling okay. We've got another few hundred years of pain first. We will be well dead.

I agree it will be bad eventually. But the worst of it is still probably over a hundred or more years away so it just doesn’t feel real or urgent to most people yet.

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

I agree it will be bad eventually. But the worst of it is still probably over a hundred or more years away so it just doesn’t feel real or urgent to most people yet.

Do you not read the news? Disappearing permafrost in the Arctic, record temperature in Canada and a whole town destroyed by fire, catastrophic bushfires in Australia and unprecedented deadly floods in Germany.

Not to mention Covid that was made much more likely due to environmental degradation.

A big issue is people believing in the green washing that goes on
This is often at a lower level that doesn’t cause major impact but at a higher level people have been encouraged to give up cars that go to scrap to then buy a new electric car

The energy it takes to construct the plant to build that car, the materials that are beeddd to build that car, the energy and resource it’s taken to build those massive batteries and then the fact that’s those batteries are then a major future waste issue is hugely concerning

If people had continued to drive the car that didn’t need to be disposed of than buying a new car be it electric, or hybrid that would save a huge amount of carbon use.

It’s not been massively reported in the news but a major fire broke out at the largest Tesla battery plant recently , it burned so hard it needed over 100 firefighters

Stop thinking that buy driving an electric car is saving the planet, it really isn’t

I don't understand why there is still so much plastic and why it was allowed in the first place. Not so very long ago people had only paper bags or used their baskets when they shopped for food for example. Now everything just about is made of the stuff.

The thing is, we can’t sustain the kind of terror we would need to actually change it RIGHT NOW, which is when we need to do it. We just can’t. As in, we are not capable of keeping it at the forefront of our minds and making it our driving force.

We experience the terror in short horrible bursts but there’s so many distractions. The planet is on fire but what is immediately noticeable are the things happening to us, personally. So you read about wildfires and lasting damage and you feel the horror and the panic and the toddler needs a nappy change and did you hear about the new season of stranger things? Oh the simpsons is on and I must get to those dishes before tea time.

It’s just not sustainable, mentally. If we could cut through the distractions, maybe people would listen. If we had a solid plan that everyday people could follow (and not just turning lights off) then maybe.

I sometimes think about media blackouts. Dead air on all radio stations. WiFi and data turned off. Every tv channel just showing the same screen, possibly with a plan on, or just the affects of climate change in pictures and video. It’s so easy to turn away when we get scared, flick the channel, go on Facebook, never fully facing the truth for fear that it will blind us with fear.

It’ll never happen though. Climate change can’t be stopped by the likes of you and I, and the richest people, the ones who can stop it, won’t. There’s no profit line, is there? And they won’t suffer because they’re old enough to die before things get bad enough and arrogant enough to think they’re more important.

The closest thing we have is boycott. All we can do is stop driving cars powered by petrol and diesel, stop buying from amazon, stop giving money to the ones who won’t stop causing the problem. But, when petrol cars are all some people can afford, they won’t stop. When you work half an hour away and don’t have a bus route nearby how can you?

@Amima

Let me give an example. I used to buy earbuds with plastic sticks. They were awful for the environment but I needed to clean my ears so what could I do? Then the government banned plastic sticks and the earbud manufacturers started making paper sticks instead. I happily buy the paper earbuds and use them to clean my ears. But until they were manufactured and put on the shelves I couldn’t buy them. Extrapolate that to everything that’s wrong with the world. The government and the big corporations need to make the changes in order for the rest of us to be able to adopt them.

You could just not buy them, you have free will

Whatever happens the planet will be fine.

We might not be.

pollyglot, thank you for your post.

This is down to capitalism. Corporations and the powerful are the only ones who can actually mitigate this because they are responsible. That means pressuring them. Educate yourselves.

But the only thing that puts pressure on them is their customers. If people stop buying plastic straws they make paper ones (actually also really bad and the answer is don’t use a bloody straw. Apart from people with disabilities they are one of the worlds most pointless things). We ALL need to make changes that then add up to business change.

Electric cars are a massive step forward but the ideal is to either sell on your old car or to run it until it dies first. But that is the same with everything. No point at all in throwing away plastic straws and buying bamboo straws. All you’ve done is made the problem worse. Just rinse and reuse your old ones over and over again until they die

what I don't understand is how is the system to work - if you stop everyone using cars etc and you tell everyone to grow their own food - what is going to happen in the interim - how will people feed themselves if they have no income (because they can't travel to work), if no one gets oil out of the ground, that's good, but how are all the oilworkers to feed their families with no money. Overnight we need to make people stop travelling, and stop heating their homes, and get food sustainably - but what will they live on whilst that happens. Cutting back on oil and gas (good) means no heating or cooking fuel much of the time- what happens in places with temperatures below freezing?
Basically we need to go back to life around 1920s? After that we used coal for heating etc. But we also used wood before that. Which isn't good.
We are well and truly stuffed.

It’s really bad! And stressful. And we do male changes to our day to day life.
But it’s so depressing seeing goverment do nothing and then people around us using their big cars to go to the shop down the road or putting the heating on in august coz they’re a bit chilly or buy new clothes every day or eating meat at every dinner…
Sorry i ramble but i find it terrifying!
What can we do?

For anyone interested in solar, it is still a money saving move even though the government payments have stopped.

We are about to have panels installed. The predicted savings over their life are 3.5 times their cost (this is for a system with a battery store so that we can maximise our own personal use from what we generate.)

We need to be in a position where all new builds have solar panels, are super insulated, have triple glazing, have external shutters and have good rainwater harvesting systems.

@Carboholic

xkcd.com/1732/

Take one look at this graph and then please blush at ever having said “natural phenomena”.

OP:
Have fewer children
Fly less
Drive less
Vote!
Don’t buy shit just because an ad tells you you should or because the Joneses have it
Eat less meat

The big ones are probably flying less, voting better and having fewer children (though this is a hard one and very personal). Just because other people are doing something pr not doing something doesn’t mean you have to. Eg, if China and the US are pissing in the swimming pool doesn’t mean we should, and if MN tells you never to date a man who doesn’t drive doesn’t mean you need to own 3 SUVs. Doing something lessens anxiety. But there is a good reason to take this very, very seriously.

Agree that taking individual action can lessen anxiety and that everything on your list is important, but the most important action any individual can take it to put pressure on the government - sign petitions, write to your MP, attend demonstrations. If enough of us mobilise, significant and lasting change can and will happen.

It is bad, but it won't change. Here's why.

You'd have to get everyone to agree to only have one child. Won't happen.
You'd have to get everyone to agree to no more international travel unless you are moving countries for work. Won't happen.
You'd have to get everyone to agree to stop using cars unless they are electric now and only use public transport, cycling or walking. Won't happen.
You'd have to stop production of plastic. Won't happen.
You'd have to stop building homes and get people to accept the ones we have are it. Won't happen.
We would have to stop importing so much food from other countries, so our variety of food would decrease. So that won't happen either.

You need drastic changes like these at this point. Little steps, like waiting until 2030 to cease production of non electric cars, is pointless. Drastic is what is needed. But when you see threads of here of people saying they need a holiday abroad for their sanity, or need more than 3 children, you'll see its never going to happen. People like their freedom too much.

But it’s so depressing seeing goverment do nothing and then people around us using their big cars to go to the shop down the road or putting the heating on in august coz they’re a bit chilly or buy new clothes every day or eating meat at every dinner…
Sorry i ramble but i find it terrifying! What can we do

You have to be prepared to mess your unpopular views known. I was at a lunch with friends last week. A group of six middle aged and fairly affluent women all talking about holidays. When it came to my turn I said we weren’t going away and that was because I was too concerned about the environmental impact of flying. They looked at me like I had two heads and then started talking about how they absolutely must go away because they needed it so much. But I’m determined to make the point every time. Travel in planes needs to go back to being an occasional luxury.

@HasaDigaEebowai

But it’s so depressing seeing goverment do nothing and then people around us using their big cars to go to the shop down the road or putting the heating on in august coz they’re a bit chilly or buy new clothes every day or eating meat at every dinner… Sorry i ramble but i find it terrifying! What can we do

You have to be prepared to mess your unpopular views known. I was at a lunch with friends last week. A group of six middle aged and fairly affluent women all talking about holidays. When it came to my turn I said we weren’t going away and that was because I was too concerned about the environmental impact of flying. They looked at me like I had two heads and then started talking about how they absolutely must go away because they needed it so much. But I’m determined to make the point every time. Travel in planes needs to go back to being an occasional luxury.

See? That's what I mean. People are too selfish and they will continue to be until it personally affects them. Even then, it will escape the notice of most and they'll blame something else.

Yes but I can influence those people. They’re my circle and tbh most people are sheep like in their behaviours.

So for example I've only recently become aware of just how appalling cut flowers are for the environment. Many are flown in from kenya and have a massive CO2e impact.

I might not yet be able to influence my friends to skip their overseas holiday but I can certainly persuade them that its so much nicer to have flowers from the garden or to buy dried flowers that last for months (and are very trendy).

Having said that, I give up with my parents. They are flying off abroad every other month and I struggle t even get them to sort their recycling.

I gave up worrying a while ago.

Decided to not have children. Will live my life as conscientiously as I want, which is probably miles more than most in this country.

I dread to think what the next 50-100 years has in store for this planet.