If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

The good news is that life on earth will be FINE. Especially if the weeds in my garden are anything to go by. Those fuckers will outlive the cock roaches.

Humans, meh. But life on earth will continue.

[quote Cam77]@OnlyFoolsnMothers

The US has 30 times the airports of China with a quarter of the population.
The UK has nearly the same amount.
The EU has 6 times the number with less than half the population.[/quote]
Well this is the argument back- India feels we had our industrial revolution they deserve theirs. We can either play tit for tat or as a world all try better with the knowledge we have.

Lol I have to laugh, please think of the children! How about people start raising their children to respect their environment and not grow up to be adults who think its okay to litter beaches. The picturs over summer were disgusting.

Start with teaching your children the right behaviours so they grow up to he adults who respect the environment but no lets just moan about China and Russia and companies

@PlanDeRaccordement

It’s not that bad. It’s been worse. Things have been improving for past sixty years or more. But humans always need something to doomsay about to whip up fear in the populace to back various political or social movements. Climate change is just the latest fad.

It is not a fad. Far from it. As the younger of you will find out in due course.

So once Western nations have closed 3/4 of their existing airports and reduced their flights by say 200%, perhaps China will be inspired to have a rethink.

Doesn't matter because in Germany they have decided that reintroducing coal is better than nuclear, and will imflame international tensions by continuing with nordstream.

It requires multinational government response, it isn't on the individual at this point, weather you buy from amazon or your local indepentant it has most likely come from the same source somehwer in the chain, it is part and parcel of globalisation, I find it best to complain on my apple device whilst sitting in a coffee shop using the free wifi.

I'm just not sure what good panicking will do.

I walk to the shops and to school.
I drive an electric car.
I recycle more than what is collected by the council by composting and taking other items to collection points.
I use reusable water bottles.
I use washable masks.
I buy second hand a lot.
I repair and mend if I can.
I wear an extra layer before putting the heating on and dry washing outside whenever I can instead of using the drier.
I am not veggie, but I have veggie meals regularly and only eat red meat once of twice a month.

But seriously, none of that will make any fucking difference to what is happening because the powers that be are making too much money polluting the planet to ever stop.

So what's the point in panicking, or indeed doing anything at all? We are utterly helpless against the oncoming tide.

@MareofBeasttown

I am really wondering why so many people on this thread are blaming poorer nations. Have you looked at the carbon footprint of an average Indian as compared to an average British person? Even if an Indian woman has 6 children, their carbon footprint is tiny compared to Boris's 7 or 8 children. . India signed the Paris agreement; it's the USA under Trump that didn't. ( Now reversed under Biden). Please stop blaming the bogeyman of the Indian woman with 15 children. They hardly exist in real life where birth rates are actually falling. Or poorer nations building much needed infrastructure. Why the hell shouldn't they?

I think the worst aspect of climate change is some poor woman in China is blamed for it , when huge global oil corporations-usually American- are spared.

No point in blaming now, although the reality is that it will be the ultra rich who survive and the billions of poor who won't.

Or poorer nations building much needed infrastructure. Why the hell shouldn't they? Because they are hastening their own deaths.

I think there is way too much emphasis on individual action and not enough on large polluting companies. www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

@OnlyFoolsnMothers
It's not tit for tat though - it's... don't expect people in far away places to be willing to make sacrifices that you and your compatriots are unwilling to make.

@Sarahlou63 The ultra rich will survive anyway, just as they have survived covid. I can;t really stomach this sort of eco-fascism.

A huge mental stumbling is that we all know Mr 0.001% will continue to live his/her billionaire lifestyle, while expecting 1000 poor people (with the same total footprint as him) to "make sacrifices" and stop their one annual foreign family holiday on Ryanair.

[quote MareofBeasttown]@Sarahlou63 The ultra rich will survive anyway, just as they have survived covid. I can;t really stomach this sort of eco-fascism.[/quote]
But it's nothing new.

During the plague, the rich fled London and left the poor to die.

Money buys choice. 'Twas ever thus.

[quote Cam77]@OnlyFoolsnMothers
It's not tit for tat though - it's... don't expect people in far away places to be willing to make sacrifices that you and your compatriots are unwilling to make.[/quote]
Well, exactly. This is at least the second time I have noticed this "India and China should stop building airports and roads! They are ruining the world." Maybe the West can do without its airports and roads instead.

Problem is...we wont do what is required to fix the problem.

No cars, no air travel, no central heating, no more "stuff", limit on children, stop thinking about perpetual growth...a complete move away from capitalist model.

I try to be hopeful - what's the alternative? It's no help to anyone if we all freak out.
Firstly, it's in most countries interests to move away from fossil fuels and towards a greener economy. China is still quite bad at using coal but they are moving towards a lower carbon economy and are good at inventing new green technologies. In the next few years things like electric cars will be completely mainstream.

Things to me seem to be moving in the right direction - governments DO care. But it's just not happening fast enough. So we need to apply pressure to politicians

And I do think everything we can do as individuals can genuinely make a difference. Eg pressure to get rid of plastic bags and straws started off as a niche thing, now it's everywhere. Loads of countries have banned them completely. Consumers have power!!

Yes I know mica mining isn't about climate change. It's just another example of how many people don't care about things. This problem has been known about for many years & it's still a really common ingredient in cosmetics.

If you really want to make a difference then you should teach your children how to survive with only a basic infrastructure. How to produce their own food, how to repair clothes, how to maintain their vehicles and homes, how to adapt to mental and physical challenges. Even if your children don't need these skills, their children probably will.

@Sarahlou63

If you really want to make a difference then you should teach your children how to survive with only a basic infrastructure. How to produce their own food, how to repair clothes, how to maintain their vehicles and homes, how to adapt to mental and physical challenges. Even if your children don't need these skills, their children probably will.

Wow this is grim. I don't know how to do most of this. I am telling my children not to have children, though I don't know if they will listen to me. Probably not.

@PlanDeRaccordement

How was it worse in 1921?

• Raw sewage in most of worlds water sources...yum yum
• No waste removal for rubbish...just heaps rotting outside every town

-coal fired power plants causing acid rain killing entire lakes and rivers

• polluted air killed millions more than now such that even London still had killer fogs on a regular basis.
• deforestation was at its peak world wide
• world starvation and poverty was much higher than now

-infant/child mortality far worse

Of course there was waste removal for rubbish. Child poverty and mortality have little to do with climate change. You are not arguing to the point.

@Sarahlou63

If you really want to make a difference then you should teach your children how to survive with only a basic infrastructure. How to produce their own food, how to repair clothes, how to maintain their vehicles and homes, how to adapt to mental and physical challenges. Even if your children don't need these skills, their children probably will.

They can't even teach their children to not litter lol good luck trying to teach them anything more than something so basic and simple as dont throw litter on the floor

There is a great book about this mental block called Don't Even Think About It by George Marshal about the neurology around climate change. The more it affects people, the LESS they do about it weirdly. If you own a bechfront hurricane prone property in the US that has been flooded, you are actually LESS likely to believe in climate change. Same with flood prone areas of the UK. Essentially, we can't begin to fathom the devastation happening in front of us because our brains only asses immediate, life threatening risk and not slowing boiling alive.

Climate change is real, that’s obvious to anyone, but it is part of the natural cycles of our planet.

The Romans grew grapes in the North of England, which is just about feasible today. Between the 17th & 19th centuries, during a period called the ‘little ice age’, people skated on the frozen Thames, which is completely unthinkable today, because we are currently in a warm spell. History teaches us that the cycle will change again, because that’s what it does.

@Carboholic

xkcd.com/1732/

Take one look at this graph and then please blush at ever having said “natural phenomena”.

OP:
Have fewer children
Fly less
Drive less
Vote!
Don’t buy shit just because an ad tells you you should or because the Joneses have it
Eat less meat

The big ones are probably flying less, voting better and having fewer children (though this is a hard one and very personal). Just because other people are doing something pr not doing something doesn’t mean you have to. Eg, if China and the US are pissing in the swimming pool doesn’t mean we should, and if MN tells you never to date a man who doesn’t drive doesn’t mean you need to own 3 SUVs. Doing something lessens anxiety. But there is a good reason to take this very, very seriously.

Thanks for this link. It was really excellent at showing previous climate changes compared to now

@Beecham

I try to be hopeful - what's the alternative? It's no help to anyone if we all freak out. Firstly, it's in most countries interests to move away from fossil fuels and towards a greener economy. China is still quite bad at using coal but they are moving towards a lower carbon economy and are good at inventing new green technologies. In the next few years things like electric cars will be completely mainstream.

Things to me seem to be moving in the right direction - governments DO care. But it's just not happening fast enough. So we need to apply pressure to politicians

And I do think everything we can do as individuals can genuinely make a difference. Eg pressure to get rid of plastic bags and straws started off as a niche thing, now it's everywhere. Loads of countries have banned them completely. Consumers have power!!

But governments can and do change and not always for the better. Look at all the backwards steps Trump took. The US are horrendous polluters that a real leader could have tried to stem. But he just saw it all as a hoax and a laugh and just pushed things back further than they needed to be.

All while whipping up his divided America to still see it all as a big laugh and a joke too.

We have cut plastic out of our lives almost completely and basically only have plastic medicine packaging, but in the time it took me to type that, CocaCola made 100,000 plastic bottles.
Soooo, it is all worthless while we enjoy capitalism and a constant need for GDP and stocks to be ever increasing.