If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

Thank you Buccanarab. It needs saying a million times: it is the speed of the changes!
Adjusting takes a while, mass extinction and lots of trouble is what one would hope to avoid,

But panicking is not helpful. A calm rational response would be much better!
And yes, it has to come from the top. But of course, the top can be heavily influenced from the bottom.
Do the majority of people want to, though? It seems not.
I am learning to fish, Hunt and grow my own food just to feel a tad more in control of the future.
The tipping point was a few years back, I am afraid, but as the systems are malleable I do not see any reason to sit back and watch Rome burn (or Greece, Australia, Siberia and North West America as is the RL scenario happening right now!)

Also wonder why artificial grass is allowed in gardens - caused even more flooding issues when there were heavy rains recently, not to mention the impact on birds etc.
Agreed; it’s bloody awful. The trouble is so much relies on legislation: a ban wouldn’t be popular with the manufacturers, the installers, suppliers, etc, also the general public who’ll say, “But I like a clean garden/easier for my dog/whatever selfish reason”, and would vote against any measures. Also where does the old existing stuff go – landfill?

And you can’t rely on educational campaigns and people stopping choosing it so it gets killed off by market forces: look at when we were encouraged to wear masks rather than obliged to, there were threads here with people going, “But I like to see people’s smiles!” as an argument against it. On this thread alone we’ve got “I won’t give up cotton buds because I don’t like wet ears”, as though towels don’t exist; the other day someone started a thread on here blaming the government “because my recycling bin is full of Pepsi bottles” (?!).

Only draconian, sweeping legislation and measures akin to the rationing years will work, and there would be mass revolt. Some of which I think would be fair: easy for me with equity in my house and money in the bank to go and hide out the apocalypse somewhere with a big garden, keep chickens, grow my own, be anti-astroturf, but expensive bamboo toothbrushes/paste capsules/whatever. Harder if your life is different.

[quote MareofBeasttown]@Sarahlou63 The ultra rich will survive anyway, just as they have survived covid. I can;t really stomach this sort of eco-fascism.[/quote]
Agreed

@DGRossetti

When the government acts like it matters, then I will.

Quite weird to defer to the government in this way, I prefer to use my own brain.

This is a great talk about how to get everyone to care about the green economy....

m.youtube.com/watch?v=slbfAfEvnQ0

Best and quickest short answer - who’s “we”? Do you really think a London stockbroker-turned-politician with a few million hidden away in an overseas tax haven, and / or family with landed estates in the Home Counties, is facing the same level of threat as a normal working person from a northern English dump estate with “nothing but themselves to recommend them”? “There is no such thing as society”, remember? Especially when you realise that the former depends on the latter continuing to be an unaware cog in their machine. They care no more about us than the small farmer gradually losing land in Bangladesh - possibly less give today’s uncertain and complex ties and loyalties.

Artificial grass, laid properly on a sand and aggregate base is more free draining than heavily impacted clay underneath the average lawn.
It reduces maintenance - fertiliser, weed killer, mowing (using electric/petrol lawnmowers, and replacing machinery when broken) - and is far easier for less able people to manage. It allows year round use too. I love mine!
I have plenty of flowers and trees in my garden, so plenty of birds, bees and butterflies are catered for.

@SaharaFlower

People really do panic over anything. I can't believe people tell their children to not reproduce.

The problem is that 100 years ago people died very easily women died in childbirth, infant mortality was high men died in wars and industrial accidents. In the mid 20th century the NHS I the uk was born. Infant mortality dropped. People lived longer. NHS is driven in reducing mortality generally.

To put it bluntly we are a victim of our own success. We keep completely useless people alive when we should be looking at quality not how old you can get to. Is it really humane to keep a 20 week old fetus alive because we can even though that child will have life long crippling problems, not all but a lot do. If everyone today has two kids who have two kids etc the world will fill up. Who do you decide not to feed? There is only so much land to grow food on. Even that's disappearing with rising sea levels.

@TableFlowerss

If world leaders made as much effort in to tackling climate change as they have trying to deal with covid etc… we’d maybe have half a chance.

Thank you. Totally agree and the damage we are doing to our planet with some of these infection controls is utterly immoral.

"To put it bluntly we are a victim of our own success. We keep completely useless people alive when we should be looking at quality not how old you can get to. Is it really humane to keep a 20 week old fetus alive because we can even though that child will have life long crippling problems, not all but a lot do. If everyone today has two kids who have two kids etc the world will fill up. Who do you decide not to feed? There is only so much land to grow food on. Even that's disappearing with rising sea levels."

If the point of life is restricting life, then ask what is life?

For the 20 week fetus: I don't know, but may be unfair to deny a life down to disability. People with disability still live good lives.

It reduces maintenance - fertiliser, weed killer, mowing (using electric/petrol lawnmowers, and replacing machinery when broken)
I don’t disagree that’s plastic grass is easier to manage for less able people, but I’ve never used fertiliser or weed killer on my lawn, and I mow with a push mower so no electricity or petrol needed. When it broke, I mended it.

A lot of the “what about” arguments against perfectly sound environmental practices often uses strawmen like this: a lawn needs neither fertilising or weedkilling; mowers can be mended – and in any case, lots of no-mow sections is better for biodiversity.

And please don’t blame those of us who have artificial grass for exacerbating flooding - how ridiculous! Have you not seen 8 or 10 lane motorways? How much free-draining land do they use? Building homes on flood plains? Following EU rules on not dredging rivers? Hopefully, at least that can now be restarted. Whoever dreamt up the idea that life at the bottom of rivers must be protected to the detriment of those that live on the land should be made responsible for the damage caused.

@SaharaFlower

For the 20 week fetus: I don't know, but may be unfair to deny a life down to disability. People with disability still live good lives.

Some do, but many do not.

@burritofan

It reduces maintenance - fertiliser, weed killer, mowing (using electric/petrol lawnmowers, and replacing machinery when broken) I don’t disagree that’s plastic grass is easier to manage for less able people, but I’ve never used fertiliser or weed killer on my lawn, and I mow with a push mower so no electricity or petrol needed. When it broke, I mended it.

A lot of the “what about” arguments against perfectly sound environmental practices often uses strawmen like this: a lawn needs neither fertilising or weedkilling; mowers can be mended – and in any case, lots of no-mow sections is better for biodiversity.

You may not use these products, but plenty do. My arguments still stand.

And please don’t blame those of us who have artificial grass for exacerbating flooding - how ridiculous!

I don’t think this is the thread for you. You can’t possibly expect to persuade anyone who is bothered about climate change that artificial grass is a good thing. Even those in very hot places who shouldn’t have lawns due to water shortages have better options than covering the earth with plastic

" SaharaFlower

For the 20 week fetus: I don't know, but may be unfair to deny a life down to disability. People with disability still live good lives.

Some do, but many do not."

Many able do not live good lives, but is the implication here that those with disability aren't valued?

Another problem - and it is a biggie, and I probably won’t explain it well - is that too many people don’t recognise, erm, how many people there are doing exactly the same thing as them. They’re all doing the same thing largely because they are all doing the same thing. And they don’t see how it adds up. They can’t extrapolate from their actions to the collective actions of a few million.

Gardens for instance constitute an awfully large - and very surprisingly large - percentage of “wild”, as in uncontrolled and unproductive, habitat available in Britain, because the place is overpopulated anyway. So a tendency for cementing over gardens and preventing that land’s use in water catchment does have a significant impact.

@HasaDigaEebowai That’s the problem with this thread. It’s an echo chamber. You’re preaching to the converted - it’s the people with artificial lawns that need to be engaged with this.

I dont think artificial grass replaces grass really. I think it replaces paving and gravel. People find lawn doesnt really grow as its too shady or boggy or heavily used and think about a different thing on the ground so they can use it.

This is why i find environmental decisions hard to make as plastic is bad (is it recycled plastic?) but then digging up sandstone and transporting is bad too.

Deflecting by pointing to other countries doesn’t help. We need to be leading the way in this not sitting back and saying there’s no point doing anything because of other countries.

A very noble sentiment, but you’re pissing in the wind sadly.

I dont think artificial grass replaces grass really. I think it replaces paving and gravel.

@Elephantsparade I just googled artificial grass adverts. Slogans include “No more muddy paws for your pets!” and “Don’t waste your time mowing your lawn!” I think the inference is clear.

@SaharaFlower

" SaharaFlower

For the 20 week fetus: I don't know, but may be unfair to deny a life down to disability. People with disability still live good lives.

Some do, but many do not."

Many able do not live good lives, but is the implication here that those with disability aren't valued?

Absolutely not from my viewpoint. Of course people with disabilities should be valued, however, having spent almost all my working life in disability services, (specifically LD), I do know what I am talking about. Children are very well catered for, but unfortunately, there is never enough money once they turn 19, leave statutory education, and social services take over.

Quite, @HasaDigaEebowai.

Loads of well studied reasons why humans, individually and collectively, are bad at ‘seeing’ and responding to things that are not short term.

Think it’s almost inevitable that irreversible climate change will come to pass and very bad scenarios will play out. Eg disasters, migration, conflict and wars.

Had I come to these thoughts sooner might well not have had DC, although read that we should care about humanity beyond just our DC/immediate circle!