GP Surgeries are NEGLIGENT if they're not doing face to face appointments

[AmIEmptyOrNumB]

My GP surgery never stopped. They just triaged so 90% by phone and those essential face to face appointments carried on but with masks etc. Why is the government not doing more about this? These Surgeries denying all face to face appointments are failing the hippocratic oath.

During 2020 2.5m patients have had to transfer to another GP practice as theirs has closed permanently.
DH is the senior partner at his practice, the other GP’s are locums. The practice is closing as we are moving to Canada and the locums are going back to their own countries. There is no one to take on the practice. All those patients will have to find a new GP and add to their list with the result of even more patients wanting GP’s time. Being a GPis not a popular job for a doctor

I personally find it much easier to get an appointment since triage weeds out the people who want to see a doctor for a reason another service is a better fit for 😂

@Fairyliz ditto

I am overjoyed for those people who have a system that works, but some of us don't.
And to be told we are entitled, mistaken or just plain whingers who don't appreciate the pressure GPS are under is fucking insulting.
For some it works, for some it does not. All GPS (presumably) have the same guidance, so why the disparity?
I do not live on a huge inner city practise, nor a very rural one. It is a market town set up. Before lockdown I would have said we had a superb service.
Yes. I am not stupid. I know things have changed.
But all 3 GPS are working.
No idea about nurses, but from what I have seen, receptionists as usual.

So why does your practise work so well, and mine cannot answer the phone?

I am (honestly) not a serial whinger, but sick to death of the 'don't knock the NHS, they walk on water' brigade.
A lot of GPS, hospitals, care providers are brilliant. The majority are functional, some are not fit for purpose.

@privateandnhsgp

MSU and culture is definitely indicated, but a dipstick is unreliable and lots of older people have bacteria in their urine that is not causing an issue.

And if they had dipped it and it showed bacteria, they'd have prescribed...... nitrofurantoin.

So you could argue that if they've had seen her face to face they'd have realised that she was sick and admitted her earlier - absolutely fair point - but in terms of a UTI looked at in isolation their end treatment (in a narrow sense) is appropriate.

I think that's the issue tbh.

It was looked at in isolation and shouldn't have been.

If they'd seen her f2f they'd have realised her o2 sats were dropping and that her abdomen was badly distended.

Sigh. I'm so tired of having to fight for her to get decent/acceptable care.

She had pseudonomas something or other in her urine apparently (?)

I think she was borderline septic tbh. She scared me.

And what about people who can't do online consults? My parents could no sooner fill in an online form or email pictures than fly to the moon. Yes I can help them with that sort of stuff but quite obviously my parents would prefer their medical history was between them and the GP.

@TheGenealogist

And what about people who can't do online consults? My parents could no sooner fill in an online form or email pictures than fly to the moon. Yes I can help them with that sort of stuff but quite obviously my parents would prefer their medical history was between them and the GP.

Yeah. It's a tricky one. Mum is pretty ok usually but I'm sure she would rather not be telling me about her prolapse so I could fill a form in!!!

My 85yo NDN who has just survived cancer woke up about a fortnight ago at 6am and blood gushed from her mouth, lots of it. She is the type to not make a fuss so she waited till 8am and rang the surgery.

They would not see her F2F.

She has had no care or investigations. She has no idea what caused the bleed but unless she rings 999, she will not apparently get medical treatment.

What are GPs doing? Manning vaccine centres still? Not when jabs are down so much. Prioritising the vulnerable? Evidently not.

@ohfourfoxache

GPs are the forgotten “victims” within the NHS

They are dealing with never ending shit from hospitals (it’s ok, because primary care will always be there to deal with the fallout), patients who have understandably been reluctant to seek help for “minor” conditions throughout the pandemic which may or may not be serious/life threatening AND they are having referrals rejected left right and centre

I am so fucking fed up of this never ending stream of utter shit against GPs. The vast majority are on their fucking knees they are so overloaded, but because you can’t “see” it it isn’t happening

I absolutely fucking despair 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

My 3 month old nephew had a fever for 3 days when SIL contacted the GP for an appointment. He was refused a face to face appointment as he had a fever - they claimed pandemic meant all patients with fever are not allowed in the practice - he was 3 MONTHS old. When he did not improve for a further 2 days, they finally offered him face to face - turned out to be a half hearted examination in the car park which did not cover all and sent him home saying it was viral. Ended up being on verge of sepsis, in hospital on IV antibiotics. No idea how they can justify their policy and have written multiple complaints as well as reported to CQC but GPs like this are giving them all a bad name.

Thankfully my GP saw my 18 month old immediately when she was unwell. Cannot fault them for a thing through the pandemic but there are some awful practices out there and this is why there are so many complaints

@ohfourfoxache in fairness I had a small win later in the year when they decided my post viral fatigue following on from Marchs illness was in fact long COVID - senior GP I was talking to at the point attempted to berate me for not getting tested - I as politely as possible pointed out that I had in fact called the surgery and been told I didn’t qualify.

In general my surgery have been pretty good - and they’ve had as bad a year as the rest of us really haven’t they, GPS are people too.

I do worry about the people who maybe don’t have the confidence or knowledge to speak up for themselves though.

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff the GP should have arranged an ambulance/emergency referral to ED - unlikely there was much that the GP could genuinely do but clearly your neighbour needed urgent care

there are now just 0.46 fully qualified GPs per 1000 patients in England - down from 0.52 in 2015.

This is significantly below the average number of physicians per 1000 patients in comparable nations - 3.5

I am concerned how things are planning out with the NHS I’m on a very specific treatment for chronic illness. The first time I was on this treatment I was given a barrage of tests that they told me were imperative this time those imperative tests don’t matter as much. I’ve also been told that the annual assessment I have been having since diagnosis are now being passed to the large hospital that manages my treatment. These annual assessments have always included a physical examination, the assessments are now over the phone so how the illness is progressing will not be monitored as it had been previously. I am actually bloody scared now tbh as our once excellent care is now pretty much non existent.

The whole GP situation is crap currently . If you call our surgery then the first appointment offered is in September. You can of course try for an emergency appointment on the day . They also subscribe to LIVI - my experience of this is the first time I used it they could not access my notes so could not deal with me . The second doctor I got looked like she was in a dark room . I could barely see her face . To be fair to her she recommended to my surgery that I have some blood tests ( hormonal which normally they turn their nose up) so I am grateful in that respect . She said they may not approve it - after all these docs are not thinking whatsoever about costs to the surgery . The current situation is that I have 2 calls booked in September - one to discuss blood pressure and one to discuss the blood tests . In normal times both of these would have been discussed in one visit . As it is this is wasting doctor's time and there is no overall awareness of your situation . Everything is dealt with as a " one off " . The advantages I have found is that they are very happy right now to hand out antibiotics eg for a recurring UTI willy nilly but the downside is no investigation is being done . You DO have to be your own cheerleader with the NHS .

As there are GPs on here , can you please tell me what the plans are ? Is this telephone consulting here to stay ?

Mum hasn't been seen by the copd nurse for 2 years...

Ditto dietician.

She's so fed up with the situation she just gives up trying to get seen tbh

There are still absolutely no face to face GP appointments at my surgery. Nurse appointments happen, but GP all by phone. In my experience they ask for photos if needed whilst on the call, which you have to take on your mobile and upload to a link. No sign of a change coming.

I can’t quite believe I’m going to say this, but I will

Hospitals generally have a good number of support staff. So, even if you get the odd 1/2 that aren’t up to much, there will generally be someone there to pick up the slack

GPs are not so lucky. The £ isn’t the same as in hospitals, so generally doesn’t attract the same calibre of staff. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but I’ve experienced it both as a worker and a patient. Some staff I would happily kiss their feet for their help and dedication. But I’ve witnessed staff who wouldn’t give a nauseous patient a kidney bowl as “that’s not what we do here” only to find the poor patient vomiting on the floor in a corner. Or a receptionist who didn’t pass a message on from a community NH nurse asking a GP to do a welfare check, only to find the patient dead 2 weeks later. There tend to be the very, very good and the disastrously bad (I rate myself in the middle)

But it’s worth bearing in mind that, between you and your GP, there are a whole bunch of people who may or may not know what they are talking about

My sister was asked for a pic of her tonsils (she gets bad tonsillitis)
She said its surprisingly difficult to get a good/well lit photo of body parts

@Parker231 that figure is set to get significantly worse in the next decade

You’re getting out at the right time (we’ve also considered Canada!)

How many people on here voted to 'take back control'? Voted because they are xenophobic cunts and blamed it all on foreigners? Now we don't even need to meet the EU minimum healthcare standards, and guess what, we don't meet them. Not anymore.

You have got what you voted for. Enjoy. Remember where the blame really lies.

@ohfourfoxache yeah well they didn't. So now she believes she was "wasting their time" and if it happens again won't tell anyone. I look through her.windows each night to make sure I can still see her moving around and text if I can't. She has no one checking in.

My 3yo son fell off the bed with his toothbrush in his mouth and punctured the inside of his cheek. We rang 111 who said OOH GP would ring back within 20min. They never did. Next day he was in pain, face swollen and red, starting with a temp. GP wouldn't see him. We got some oral antiseptic stuff from a pharmacy and thankfully after a few days it subsided.

Honestly, I don't know what my GPs are doing. I would genuinely love to know so I could stop feeling so despairing about it. I have worked through the pandemic and my organisation has had to provide exactly the same service as before plus loads of extras. I don't know what is happening at my GP but if they are not seeing cancer patients in their 80s or 3yos with a potential infection in their face, who are they seeing?

why is there a reducing number of GP's ? Volunteers did the bulk of the vaccinations, and if you were seen face to face they were all swathed in PPE, Dentists and hairdressers seem to cope with being face to face with people,on the subject of the Tories keep being voted for, the NHS
has been dreadful for years regardless of which party were in power, all Tony did was give GP,s massive pay rises which is why they are all part time !

I think one of the biggest problems is that things have changed and a lot of people don't understand the changes.

For instance, our GP practice introduced an online consult form that you could fill out, it is basically a triage system, this is great for me as a nurse, because I can speed through one without any bother, I know what is wrong and I know which buttons to press to get the best and most appropriate response. I have used it twice for myself and once for DH ( which resulted in him being admitted to hospital ) and each time got a phone call within an hour and appropriate treatment.

What worries me is all the people who don't understand this system or can't access this system and there will be an awful lot of them. They are left floundering with the old telephone system, where you rang up, told the receptionsit what was wrong and you got an appointment.

Perhaps if they trained and paid a nurse or a HCA ( I work in community and our HCA's are very good at triage ) to take the phone calls and go through the triage process over the phone it would help ?

@ohfourfoxache

I can’t quite believe I’m going to say this, but I will

Hospitals generally have a good number of support staff. So, even if you get the odd 1/2 that aren’t up to much, there will generally be someone there to pick up the slack

GPs are not so lucky. The £ isn’t the same as in hospitals, so generally doesn’t attract the same calibre of staff. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but I’ve experienced it both as a worker and a patient. Some staff I would happily kiss their feet for their help and dedication. But I’ve witnessed staff who wouldn’t give a nauseous patient a kidney bowl as “that’s not what we do here” only to find the poor patient vomiting on the floor in a corner. Or a receptionist who didn’t pass a message on from a community NH nurse asking a GP to do a welfare check, only to find the patient dead 2 weeks later. There tend to be the very, very good and the disastrously bad (I rate myself in the middle)

But it’s worth bearing in mind that, between you and your GP, there are a whole bunch of people who may or may not know what they are talking about

There are some HCPs and support staff Ive had to deal with both as a colleague and a patient that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire*

*please note I would encourage others to piss on them - I'm not a monster 😬

HCPs are like any other human being. Some are wonderful. Some are bustards. Sadly, sometimes the bastards are what make the difference between life and death 😕

@MrsMaizel

There aren't really any long term plans. It's highly likely a hybrid model will emerge, somewhere in between the old system and the telephone triage model.

Let's not forget that GP was in freefall before the pandemic. NHS GP was SUCH a hostile place to work before and it's worse now.

You don't like it, we don't like it. We should all be in agreement. It's time to drop the current system and re-do it. Unfortunately the funding to primary care will have to go up considerably (our surgery gets a little less than £150 per year for each registered patient).

[quote privateandnhsgp]@MrsMaizel

There aren't really any long term plans. It's highly likely a hybrid model will emerge, somewhere in between the old system and the telephone triage model.

Let's not forget that GP was in freefall before the pandemic. NHS GP was SUCH a hostile place to work before and it's worse now.

You don't like it, we don't like it. We should all be in agreement. It's time to drop the current system and re-do it. Unfortunately the funding to primary care will have to go up considerably (our surgery gets a little less than £150 per year for each registered patient).[/quote]
I agree but successive Govts don't seem to be able to start that conversation...