GP Surgeries are NEGLIGENT if they're not doing face to face appointments

[AmIEmptyOrNumB]

My GP surgery never stopped. They just triaged so 90% by phone and those essential face to face appointments carried on but with masks etc. Why is the government not doing more about this? These Surgeries denying all face to face appointments are failing the hippocratic oath.

Why are G P's still not routinely seeing all patients face to face as before Covid ? surely there are still the same numbers of GP's employed, it strikes me that they are using covid to bring phone consultations in without discussion with the patients, government etc.

I rather like the phone consultation system and I don’t think we need HCPs or vulnerable people exposed to others / hanging around waiting rooms mid-pandemic more than necessary. But a) there needs to be good triage so that the right patients get the right appointments - I can’t be the only person who’s had to try describe a rash to a GP over the phone and b) this “we’ll call you at some point between 8am and noon” approach would be much improved with an hour slot / text 15 minutes before / anything to avoid discussing genital warts in the middle of Tesco.

DD did an online consultation- and got a reply asking her to make a telephone appointment.

She rang for a telephone appointment and was told they don't have any. She was told they would release 4 more telephone appointments the following week for a call back mid September!

So, assuming she was successful at getting one of the four appointments, she'll be back at college by mid September so would have to keep her phone on in class, then hope for permission to leave, to speak to them

My GP (even before Covid) has always done telephone or video appointments (patient's choice) at a set time in the first instance, with follow up in-person appointments if necessary (including with a specialist). When making the appointment, I make notes explaining why I need the appointment (so I don't forget during the appointment) and attach a photo, if relevant. I love this system. I can slot appointments into the working day, no bother.

I don't know why other practices don't follow the same system. It feels massively efficient for both the patient, and I assume, the doctor.

These Surgeries denying all face to face appointments are failing the hippocratic oath.

The surgeries themselves have nothing to do with the Hippocratic oath. And it's not a legally binding thing in any case.

@TidyOmlette

I don’t know any GP practice that has refused appointments and I work very closely with a lot in my area. As PP’s have said, people see a telephone consultation as a refusal when it was put in place to keep people safe and reduce the need to people to travel especially on public transport during covid.

People are always complaining about not being able to access GP surgeries but people tend to forget how many patients each surgery actually has. My one for example has 6 GP’s and 2 practice nurses but there are almost 1200 patients registered.

I would have loved a telephone consultation, I know the surgery has a lot of patients, but having spent several hours over six separate days trying to access said service, I do find it a bit galling to be almost blamed for needing to see a health professional ( give not a toss whether that be a doctor, nurse or receptionist with a magic potion).

Also wonder what the issue is with phone lines. obviously a provider issue on the lines. When I walked into my surgery, completely against the rules, the phone did not disturb the peace for the 3 or 4 minutes I was there.

As a lifelong supporter and defender of the NHS, my disappointment in them now is palpable.

The problem for me is I can't answer the phone!
And they're only doing on the day appointments
So say I need antibiotics for a UTI, but I'm well enough to work
Rather than ringing at 8am (time off work) and getting an appointment (time off work) it goes
Ring at 8am (time off work), wait for call back and answer (time off work), take urine sample in (time off work), get call back (time off work), maybe get appointment (time off work!)

My boss is perfectly happy with me taking time to ring the GP and make an appointment but not to have to mess about ringing, taking samples in, waiting for call backs etc when they can't give a time. I can't answer my phone when I'm working

It takes so long though you have

The long wait in the morning to talk to the receptionist
If you pass that test

A day in waiting for a call from the doctor/nurse and on one memorable occasion there in house pharmacist (we had already seen one in person and he reccomended a doctor)

An in person appointment

Before it was phonecall make appointment attend appointment

I agree. I don't mind the screening but it feels like it's an excuse not to see anyone

My daughter has had a runny nose - not COVID for nearly 8 weeks. I tried to get an appointment and they refused to see her first - a child needs the routine ear nose and throat check.

Then when I went in to the gp to wait for a walk in appointment I was told I'd have to wait outside for an hour. If I went to A&E I wouldn't wait outside would I to why in the go surgery? I pointed out to the receptionist I'm 8 months pregnant and can't stand outside for an hour when there were plenty of seats inside. She didn't give a shit.

Anyway lucky for me I have private gp access and was immediately referred to a paediatrician.

It's sad that money is creating a two tier system

I have been flabbergasted by how negligent some GPs have become in the last 18 months or so.

Receptionists just don’t have the skills to triage and many doctors have written that you just cannot replace a physical examination with a telephone consult, as you miss all the non verbal cues, as well as not being able to physically listen and percuss.

There has been a massive difference between some heroic practices and some who have used COVID as an excuse to not see patients.

GPs reading this should look at the vote and reflect carefully, not just assume that the general public is ignorant.

@iboogy,

Totally agree. GPs are fast becoming for those who cannot afford private GPs, whose practices are thriving.

It is sad that a two tier system is being created.

I think the move to phone calls is quite positive in lots of cases, the GP gets through more cases, the waiting rooms are not full of people sharing germs and I can have the call without having to disrupt the day.
Agree there should be f2f when needed, but I have not needed one so far.

@TheUndoingProject

GP practices introduced telephone screening etc. to keep the most vulnerable safe during a pandemic. GP practices have remained open throughout the pandemic and face to face appointments have always been available where clinically necessary.

You seem very het up about this given your GP practice has apparently been perfectly accessible to you.

this^ but as a matter of fact, although the Hippocratic Oath is said to have been written by Hippocrates, no doctor is required to take it or abide by it. patient.info/doctor/ideals-and-the-hippocratic-oath

My 75 year old mum (who has several health conditions including a bladder prolapse) has just spent a 5 days in hospital with nephritis on IV fluids, IV antibiotics, IV pain relief and Supplemental oxygen.
Why??
Because when I filled in an e consult form for her (as the surgery now demand....) a Dr called her back that afternoon, dx a UTI over the phone (how do you dip urine over the phone!!??) And gave her 3 days of Nitrofurantoin.
By midnight that night she was systemically ill and needed all the above interventions.
Formal complaint in.
Nothing will happen.
No other option where we live.
They don't have to improve.

Our GP has been fine, it takes a while to get through, but that's standard. We had to send pictures of DS eczema flare up, and were then referred to dermatology and given new creams, which was the outcome we wanted.

@girlmom21

I don't think doctors have stopped face to face consultations.

Some surgeries have grouped together when they have staff shortages so people may have had to travel an extra 0.2 miles.

I think most complaints have come from people who really haven't needed to see GP's or aren't willing to go through the triage process because they think they know best.

I'm not medically trained but I know that oxygen sats of 90, inability to walk and pain need intervention.

Maybe our surgery is the only bad apple...

This surgery also refused to go to a house and certify a death and insisted a warden video the deceased...

I don't even know if that's legal tbh...

Phone calls would be great if they weren't "at some point between midday and 6pm".

Many of us work and can't be on call for 6 hours, our bosses would t be happy. This is where change needs to happen. Give patients an actual time slot.

...and I do find it odd that prior to covid you needed to be at deaths door to get antibiotics but now they ate throwing them at people repeatedly in some cases 🤔

I think most complaints have come from people who really haven't needed to see GP's or aren't willing to go through the triage process because they think they know best

Or have been told that that they cannot have an appointment without going through the phone triage first....despite the fact they are deaf so find the phone triage impossible.

My dad is 94. He is deaf and has complex co-morbities. He has been admitted to hospital several times because his GP has refused to see him face to face and made a serious misdiagnosis. The 5th time he was lucky to survive. The hospital consultant wrote to the GP on each occasion and said that due to his deafness and complex needs he needed face to face consultations were needed. He eventually wrote "I do not expect to see Mr X in my ward again because you have failed to give him appropriate care". Guess what - it still isn't happening and last month he was admitted again after ghd GP refused to see him face to face. So they missed his pneumonia and decided his issue was arthritis. The trouble is he lives in a small town with only one practice and can't change.

Our surgery say they are doing face to face but only after an online consukt (you fill in a form with photos if required). I've done online consilts 5 times for DC, and twice for me. We've not been allowed a face to face for any of them even though DC have a skin complaint that photos don't do justice and I have a lump that hasn't gone away in months and is a bit suspect. I just got told it was probably due to breastfeeding I'm having to go private to get it seen.

Our surgery was harder to get inside than a medieval castle until recently. It was the receptionists rather than the doctors themselves though.

@weakpanda

The only issue I have with the telephone appointments given by my surgery is they never state a time, just "Dr will call you during afternoon surgery anytime 12-6pm". So I'm expected to stay home all afternoon and wait for a call? Or discuss my suicidal thoughts while doing the Tesco shop where everyone can hear???

Our gp has a recorded message saying that, if you don’t answer when called you will be deemed to have missed the ‘appointment’. They don’t specify a time!

I phoned the surgery on Wednesday, was told I would get a telephone consult within the hour, which I did, and was given a physiotherapist appointment face to face on Thursday.