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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nine years for starving a baby to death

999 replies

PropertyFlipper · 06/08/2021 15:07

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

OP posts:
Felldownabackdonhole · 06/08/2021 20:57

This is heartbreaking that poor baby.Sad She must have suffered so much in her life. I think that is the worst part of it. That she must have spent such a huge part of her life in fear. I struggle to understand how her mother could have left her for 5 days.

I do think that there was a huge failing of child protection. How did they know she had been left on her own 11 times? What happened to her? Why did the sheltered accommodation staff not notice that a one year old baby was being left on her own?

My friend has adopted a child who suffered from severe neglect as a baby. She has been severely impacted by the neglect and goes to special school. There are many more children like Asiah who experience a similar degree of neglect but are rescued in time.

sociallydistained · 06/08/2021 20:58

I’m currently writing my dissertation on female perpetrated child sexual abuse and its obviously harrowing stuff. To go from that to reading about all these recent child death cases I just feel hollow.

However, as @Lockheart mentioned, ignoring the reason behind why this woman did what she did and just putting it down to her being a monster is not helpful at all. Going by the mountains of research I’ve recently read, the backgrounds and experiences of these women are always paramount to why they do these things. In order to understand and prevent it we need to look at how they were failed too.

As others have said, I can’t imagine what was going through her head. What did she think was going to happen when she got home and her child was dead??

That poor little girl. I cannot begin to imagine.

the80sweregreat · 06/08/2021 21:01

I'll take the ' Simple ' approach that if you leave a child alone once for a few days then that child should be removed from its mum or dad.
I can't see how anyone can think that allowing her to keep her baby is in any way right ?

ghostyslovesheets · 06/08/2021 21:03

@the80sweregreat

I'll take the ' Simple ' approach that if you leave a child alone once for a few days then that child should be removed from its mum or dad. I can't see how anyone can think that allowing her to keep her baby is in any way right ?
no one has said that have they - but please tell me HOW you would remove her - what legal process, what evidence you would need, given the child had no allocated SW at the time - I'm interested in how you would go about that?
Blossomtoes · 06/08/2021 21:03

[quote Porcupineintherough]@Blossomtoes would you have such a problem with prison "not achieving much" if it was a man who killed a child by hitting or shaking them? Because death by starvation and thirst is a horrendous, horrendous death. That poor baby suffered terribly and she did so alone. 9 years is nothing compared to what that child went through - and the chances are her mum will be out and partying again in 4.

Will prison make her a better parent? Of course not, that's not what it's for.[/quote]
What makes you think I have a problem with prison? I’ve essentially said the same as you except a little more calmly.

Porcupineintherough · 06/08/2021 21:04

@Lockheart I think it's quite the opposite. People bending themselves pretzel shaped in their attempts to exonerate this young women. Most child killers have a fucked up childhoods - but most people with fucked up childhoods dont kill children. Can't imagine if this was one of the many man that kill their children we'd be sat here examining his motivations.

Panickingpavlova · 06/08/2021 21:04

Yes of course socially, we'll can't possibly try and prevent the this without understanding what the road is

I only many many young girls with unbelievable tough backgrounds will be amazing mothers but sometimes we get this.
Even the most well meaning 17 yo in a stable home may struggle to fully be there for a child??
But they may have more family support?
She didn't care for this child, was willing to risk the babies life so she could go out and have fun.
Where was the actual support for her? It sounds like a bizarre set up.
If my young teen has a baby in a few years I'd be expecting to be a joint carer with her?

RubyFowler · 06/08/2021 21:05

@the80sweregreat

I'll take the ' Simple ' approach that if you leave a child alone once for a few days then that child should be removed from its mum or dad. I can't see how anyone can think that allowing her to keep her baby is in any way right ?
No one is saying it was right. For goodness sake. They're just exploring how it happened. We can only attempt to stop it happening again once we know that.
the80sweregreat · 06/08/2021 21:05

The child should have been removed once it became apparent she was ok to go out and leave her on her own. Why didn't they do it then? Of course, the enquiry will say ' lessons will be learnt' but they never are are they ??

Porcupineintherough · 06/08/2021 21:07

Yeah, I'm rarely calm when it comes to children starving. My mum was starving as a tiny child (because there was no food, not through neglect). She's 80 not and still remembers how much it hurt.

Mrsmadevans · 06/08/2021 21:07

It is tragic what has happened but there is nothing we can do for Asiah. What worries me is that she will be able to have more children when she comes out of prison. We should keep her in prison until she is too old to have more children thereby preventing any future children from being born and possibly neglected, tortured and starved to death like their poor sister . By my reckoning she should be about 48 before they let her out , 28 years sounds much more like it .

the80sweregreat · 06/08/2021 21:08

Oh, it'll happen again I'm sure ;(
Too many people scared to do anything these days and children end up dying.
Why is it all so fucked up ?

ghostyslovesheets · 06/08/2021 21:08

@the80sweregreat

The child should have been removed once it became apparent she was ok to go out and leave her on her own. Why didn't they do it then? Of course, the enquiry will say ' lessons will be learnt' but they never are are they ??
I did go into a fair bit in my previous post as to why they might not have - but you may have missed that?

I'm still wondering how you would go about removing the child?

ghostyslovesheets · 06/08/2021 21:09

@the80sweregreat

Oh, it'll happen again I'm sure ;( Too many people scared to do anything these days and children end up dying. Why is it all so fucked up ?
The please train as a SW - maybe you will be the change that's needed?

Or maybe you will realise that the reality is far more messy and complex

RubyFowler · 06/08/2021 21:09

@the80sweregreat

The child should have been removed once it became apparent she was ok to go out and leave her on her own. Why didn't they do it then? Of course, the enquiry will say ' lessons will be learnt' but they never are are they ??
I suppose you think if you were the social worker you'd have stormed in and carried the child out yourself?

What about the countless others you're also concerned about?

the80sweregreat · 06/08/2021 21:09

I'm not a SW , so I've no idea how to remove a child from its parents.
I just know that if she did this 11 times before then many people contributed to this poor girls death. Surely the child should come first not it's ' mother '.

the80sweregreat · 06/08/2021 21:11

I'm
Not a SW, I don't know the ' rules' but she had form for leaving a child under 1 on its own. How much more evidence fo the authorities need ??

Blossomtoes · 06/08/2021 21:11

@the80sweregreat

I'm not a SW , so I've no idea how to remove a child from its parents. I just know that if she did this 11 times before then many people contributed to this poor girls death. Surely the child should come first not it's ' mother '.
Then please stop pontificating about it and try to read what experts in these matters are telling you.
the80sweregreat · 06/08/2021 21:13

It's just an incredibly sad case. Ok, I get it, I don't know, but when you read she left her 11 times previously, then of course I'm going to question why this happened??
It's just so sad.

ghostyslovesheets · 06/08/2021 21:13

@the80sweregreat

I'm Not a SW, I don't know the ' rules' but she had form for leaving a child under 1 on its own. How much more evidence fo the authorities need ??
enough to stand up in a court of law for starters - you keep saying '11 times' but who knew this?
RubyFowler · 06/08/2021 21:13

@the80sweregreat

It's just an incredibly sad case. Ok, I get it, I don't know, but when you read she left her 11 times previously, then of course I'm going to question why this happened?? It's just so sad.
From a PP

who knew she’d been left alone 11 times (the supported housing people say they only knew of once), what happened on the previous occasions, how and when was it known the child was left for two days, was the repeated leaving her known by one person or multiple people, was it reported to social workers, if it was was was there no social worker involved and if it wasn’t why not?

Kanaloa · 06/08/2021 21:15

Surely there would have been a rather simple measure social workers could have taken though - they could have required the supported living staff to check in on the woman and child more frequently, even just to see at the door that both mother and child were in the home. Then if the child was found to be in the home alone at any time they would have been able to remove the child from the home as she would be in immediate danger, similarly like we would phone the police if we saw a very small child unattended out and about.

Porcupineintherough · 06/08/2021 21:15

@ghostyslovesheets is it so messy and complex to remove a child that is being repeatedly left alone at such a young age? It's hardly a "grey area" at 18 months, is it? No chance that they could fend for themselves in any way.

Kanaloa · 06/08/2021 21:17

Not that I’m blaming social workers, I think the blame unfortunately ends with this young woman. And I do understand her quite perfectly, as about ten years ago I basically was her. I was very aware that you can’t leave children alone, and I was aware that when I had my child I was saying goodbye to a normal teenage life of partying and fun. I just meant that while I understand pps saying the child couldn’t be instantly removed, she could have been placed on a plan to keep her safe.

ghostyslovesheets · 06/08/2021 21:18

but supported housing is just that - flats with staff on site if needed - they aren't there to check on parenting or families - it wasn't a parenting assessment placement - it was her own flat with staff on hand 24/7 if needed.

No one there seems to have seen anything concerning

yes in hindsight it would have been life saving if they had checked but it wouldn;t have been their role