Should dogs be allowed in more places?

[Patchworkknitter]

I'm a bit hurt today but I don't know if I'm being completely unreasonable.

A friend and I were trying to arrange to meet up. We had sorted what we were doing and then she changed her mind and wanted to change where we did something which would have added another 90 minutes onto the day.

I couldn't do that as my dog would already have been left all day (with 2 dog walks from a dog walker). Even with the dog walker, he couldn't do another 90 minutes. My friend got a bit cross and said I should just get my parents to look after him but they're already looking after him the day before so it wouldn't be fair. I don't like to ask them too often, a bit like people don't like to look after their children too often.

It just seems we always do child friendly places (I'm not a Mum but I try my best to be understanding of her childcare needs). She says she can't afford any additional childcare to that which she already needs for work but I can't afford additional dog care either (I pay £400 a month and don't have a partner to share any costs).

It got me thinking how restrictive it can be having a dog as a single person. I wouldn't change him for the world but it's incredibly difficult. If it was childcare I feel people would be much more understanding.

If I was a mum I could take my children pretty much everywhere.
As a dog owner, I can no longer go to the cinema, to most pubs, to restaurants, to the theatre, shopping, etc without paying out for extra dog care.

I feel dogs should be allowed in more places, more shops, more cafes, more pubs etc. Aibu?

Is choosing not to have children a lifestyle choice, @BungleandGeorge?

What changes the style of your life more than having kids?

@BungleandGeorge Are you trying to argue that parents have no choice in becoming parents but must do so for the sake of humanity? That’s… certainly something.

@ichundich Still hoping to receive that list of the plenty of adult-only spaces you mentioned…

[quote AudacityBaby]@BungleandGeorge Are you trying to argue that parents have no choice in becoming parents but must do so for the sake of humanity? That’s… certainly something.

@ichundich Still hoping to receive that list of the plenty of adult-only spaces you mentioned…[/quote]
I didn’t say it wasn’t a choice but bit ridiculous to call it a ‘lifestyle choice’, it’s just being used to disparage those with children.

I’d guess a site called mumsnet probably isn’t going to be the best source of recommendations for adult only venues

How can I? My dog walker doesn't walk evenings and my nearest cinema is 40 minutes away, nearest theatre 45 minutes away. That's nearly 2 hours travelling plus the show. A dog can't be left alone for that time.

Depends on the dog and it's age. Our dog will happily sleep for 5 hours if we go out for an evening.
And no I wouldn't want more places to be dog-friendly. Unless it's outside I definitely wouldn't want dogs anywhere with food being consumed.

@BungleandGeorge

What makes you the person who gets to decide what 'lifestyle choice' means?

@BungleandGeorge I’m only pressing that poster on it because she’s insisted a couple of times that there are plenty of them, so presumably it won’t be difficult to rattle some off.

Can’t see why “lifestyle choice” disparages parents but you do you.

Absolutely not.

And no I wouldn't want more places to be dog-friendly. Unless it's outside I definitely wouldn't want dogs anywhere with food being consumed.

Does your dog live outside or do you indeed consume food where dogs have been?

You chose to have a dog knowing the restrictions and ties they put on your life. I have a dog and he’s exercised more on a day I need to go out so he’ll nap but is also happy to sleep whilst I’m out. I wouldn’t not do something because of the dog but they are hardly comparable to actual human beings.

There are many service dogs who are allowed in cinemas, theatres etc I puppy walked for guide dogs and have taken dogs lots places so you’re never going to get away 100% from dogs.
Perhaps some additional training so he can be left alone so you can socialise. I don’t like the cinema so certainly would not travel that distance for it. Have movie night at home with friends and the dog instead I don’t know. Life is about compromise and you can’t just always do what you want when you want if you’ve committed to pets who can’t be left alone

Our DDog can be left for a good few hours if we have to go out, I always make sure he has a good walk first, leave him a few treats, radio on for him. He goes upstairs and sleeps on our bed when we're out.

No, there are plenty of dog friendly places - every country walk I've ever been on (and I've been on lots!) is dog friendly. I don't think giving my daughter more opportunities to step in dog poo is a good idea.

I'm sorry to say this, but this is something you should have considered before getting a dog.

I would love a dog. But part of the reason I didn't one is that I'd have to leave it at home when I took my daughter to our local park, which doesn't allow dogs anywhere near the huge play area.

I stand by what I said you sound ridiculous give yourself peace…it’s the minority of both people and dogs you are talking about

Sadly it’s NOT the minority. I walk my large dog-reactive dog 2-3x a day always on a short lead. He loves people (including toddlers who bump into him or kids who grab him) but reacts to off lead dogs. He’s a rescue.

At least once a day an off lead dog comes charging at him wanting to play. Most back off when he barks and lunges (he wears a harness and I have strong arms so can hold him back... unless the other dog gets right in his space!) Some stupid owners can’t recall, or think he’s being playful, or are nowhere in sight as they’ve let their dog ‘run free’.

Occasionally a dog won’t back off (despite me trying to kick it away and shouting at it) or comes at him aggressively. He responds by trying to kill it. His size, reaction times m and agility give him the upper hand.

I’m fed up of owners saying he’s ‘out of control’ or demanding I pay their vet bill (as if) when mine was on a lead the entire time! The out of control ones are the ones running free.

Walks are stressful as you can imagine. If everyone walked their dogs on leads, or trained them to give strangers and other dogs a wide berth, this wouldn’t be an issue.

@StrangeToSee

If you are holding your dog on a lead and restraining him, and he still manages to injure another dog, it is still the case that your dog was out of control. That's nobody's responsibility except yours.

Unless another dog (off lead or otherwise) attacks him, it's all on you, and it's unreasonable of you to suggest that dogs should be trained not to approach other dogs. It's one of the reasons we take our dogs out; so that they can socialise with other dogs.

It's not all about you. If you feel uncomfortable about the risk that your dog presents to others, you need to restrain/muzzle appropriately. It's a shame your dog feels the way he does, but that doesn't mean that if he attacks, it's the victim's fault.

Of course you can leave a dog for a few hours to do other things. I get that the recommendation is not regularly leaving them alone all day, but it won't do them any harm if you're out for five hours instead of four on occasion as long as they've had exercise beforehand and ideally a dog flap or other provision for their toilet needs. They manage 8+ hours overnight while their caretakers are sleeping after all.

[quote TheFoundations]@StrangeToSee

If you are holding your dog on a lead and restraining him, and he still manages to injure another dog, it is still the case that your dog was out of control. That's nobody's responsibility except yours.

Unless another dog (off lead or otherwise) attacks him, it's all on you, and it's unreasonable of you to suggest that dogs should be trained not to approach other dogs. It's one of the reasons we take our dogs out; so that they can socialise with other dogs.

It's not all about you. If you feel uncomfortable about the risk that your dog presents to others, you need to restrain/muzzle appropriately. It's a shame your dog feels the way he does, but that doesn't mean that if he attacks, it's the victim's fault.[/quote]
Of course you shouldn't let your dog approach an on lead dog! My puppy is in training, she wears a give me space jacket. She is being trained to ignore other dogs, but ridiculous owners like you still let their dogs approach her.

So irresponsible!

I didn’t say it wasn’t a choice but bit ridiculous to call it a ‘lifestyle choice’, it’s just being used to disparage those with children.

The only time I hear it said that having children is a lifestyle choice is when it's being used to argue against fertility treatment being provided on the NHS. Funny that.

[quote TheFoundations]@StrangeToSee

If you are holding your dog on a lead and restraining him, and he still manages to injure another dog, it is still the case that your dog was out of control. That's nobody's responsibility except yours.

Unless another dog (off lead or otherwise) attacks him, it's all on you, and it's unreasonable of you to suggest that dogs should be trained not to approach other dogs. It's one of the reasons we take our dogs out; so that they can socialise with other dogs.

It's not all about you. If you feel uncomfortable about the risk that your dog presents to others, you need to restrain/muzzle appropriately. It's a shame your dog feels the way he does, but that doesn't mean that if he attacks, it's the victim's fault.[/quote]
Wow you're so wrong. You shouldn't let your dog approach other dogs on lead or off lead unless the owner says it's ok. If you can't recall your dog then it shouldn't be off the lead. Full stop.

What I don't understand is how some owners that I see with huge dogs would be able to control the dog if they decided to really just run away. Surely big dogs are really strong? A lot of the owners seem to struggle holding them back when the dog lunges eg at another dog - isn't it a bit risky for those small owners having such a powerful dog?

As much as I love my pets I wouldnt want them to be in pubs, restaurants etc - its not fair on them. Some spaces are just not suitable eg busy, loud etc. In other spaces they can be a trip hazard.

What's that, your pet is really well behaved would stay close to you, is calm and wouldn't get spooked. Yeah, thats what they all say.....

If you are holding your dog on a lead and restraining him, and he still manages to injure another dog, it is still the case that your dog was out of control. That's nobody's responsibility except yours

No it’s not my responsibility. Letting you dog run free so it can ‘socialise’ with other dogs (or get into the face of on-lead dogs) is having an out of control dog.

I won’t muzzle mine because he needs to be able to defend himself if attacked by another dog. Which also happens more often than you may realise.

If I’m holding him back, trying to drive the other dog away and it keeps running up to him, I can’t save the other dog from injury. The owner should be there to recall it (before it approaches him ideally!)

If you feel uncomfortable about the risk that your dog presents to others, you need to restrain/muzzle appropriately. It's a shame your dog feels the way he does, but that doesn't mean that if he attacks, it's the victim's fault

It’s the other dog’s fault (or rather the owner’s fault) if they let their dog try to ‘socialise’ with one on a lead.

Provided the reactive dog is fine with people (like mine) there’s no need to muzzle him in public. The other dog is not a ‘victim’ it’s an off lead out of control dog harassing one on a lead. This is why I wear a go pro for walks, in case someone tries to claim my dog was off the lead.

I can pull him backwards but I can’t stop your dog.

[quote TheFoundations]@StrangeToSee

If you are holding your dog on a lead and restraining him, and he still manages to injure another dog, it is still the case that your dog was out of control. That's nobody's responsibility except yours.

Unless another dog (off lead or otherwise) attacks him, it's all on you, and it's unreasonable of you to suggest that dogs should be trained not to approach other dogs. It's one of the reasons we take our dogs out; so that they can socialise with other dogs.

It's not all about you. If you feel uncomfortable about the risk that your dog presents to others, you need to restrain/muzzle appropriately. It's a shame your dog feels the way he does, but that doesn't mean that if he attacks, it's the victim's fault.[/quote]
Sounds like you don’t have proper control of your dog. You shouldn’t be taking your dog out to inflict them on others. Socialisation is not about being happy to bounce up to other dogs or sniff them. It’s about teaching them to ignore other dogs unless they have been told they are allowed.
If an owner suggests you call your dog back, it should return to you immediately. If you see it pestering other dogs, people or ducks on a pond you should call it back immediately.
If you cannot manage that, your dog should be on a lead whenever outside.

@StrangeToSee @LST @Sadiecow

It really doesn't matter what you think or what I think. The fact is that regardless of whether your dog or my dog is on a lead, a dog that attacks is a dog that attacks. The owner is responsible for making sure a dog does not attack, and responsible for any damage done or injuries caused if it does.

If you own a dog and think that your dog attacking someone could be anyone's responsibility but yours, you need your dogs removing from you, because a dog that attacks is not under control.

It might be a replacement child to you, to everyone else, it’s a dog.

I grew up with dogs. My dad said a dog is the most annoying/difficult child you can have. I wish more people realised how difficult a dog can be and how much time they can take up, and how they can limit your activity.
It’s fine if you realise that.