To think the difficulty in seeing a GP is a plan to erode NHS treatment by stealth

[DuckyMcDuck]

It is still impossible to get an appointment at our GPs so over the last couple of weeks we have had to pay for appointment to a) check my ears for ear wax and b) to pay a podiatrist to sort out of DS's ingrowing toenail (as he was in a lot of pain and they said it would be at least a months wait for a referral)

Both cost us over £100, now we are lucky we can pay for it but AIBU to think these are treatments that should have been sorted by a GPs visit.

Well, yeah, I don't for a second believe someone charged £100 to look in their ear,

Why not? The first appointment with my local audiology practice is £150, and as they can never get the wax, next to the ear drum out first time, I have to go back again 2 weeks later, when its apparently moved further away - cost £50.

No, ear drops from the pharmacy don't work. All that happens is that I suffer even more hearing loss. The wax certainly does not come out.

@Intercity225

Well, yeah, I don't for a second believe someone charged £100 to look in their ear,

Why not? The first appointment with my local audiology practice is £150, and as they can never get the wax, next to the ear drum out first time, I have to go back again 2 weeks later, when its apparently moved further away - cost £50.

No, ear drops from the pharmacy don't work. All that happens is that I suffer even more hearing loss. The wax certainly does not come out.

Ah ok, I guess it's reasonable to pay that. It's not like you can do it yourself so you've got no choice!

Wasn’t there a thread like this recently?

OP most GPs don’t do ear syringing any more, so private or DIY is the only option. This has been the case for some time.
Podiatry is generally self-referral - you can get a form from the surgery or do it online. It’s free, it’s an NHS service. No need to see a GP.

@LemonRoses

HmmmmmmInteresting and yet, experts like teh Kings fund would suggest that the NHS is one of he most efficient healthcare systems in the world. What are you meaning by efficient and what is your evidence base?

Oh gosh.. .how long have you got?!

@8dpwoah

I don't know how my GP surgery manages it then as it was always possible to get a phone appointment same day, face to face if required the following day, no change as far as I know during covid. I rang up a few weeks ago with something non-urgent and said as much, but the receptionist insisted I go on the afternoon call list rather than waiting. Prescription at pharmacy an hour after the call. How is it possible for my GP surgery to consistently deliver a great service (including the nurse practitioners too, I and DD have both had plenty of jabs during the pandemic) when others have been so poor? Is it because they were pioneering phone triage way before covid and the patients are all used to it? It's a genuine question- I'd love to know how their model is so successful and if it could be rolled out to others?

I think it's down to different areas and CCGs who make all the decisions and then tell the surgeries in the area what they have to do. A surgery I work in has been open throughout. Same day appointments if people ring or next day appointments. Phone consultions, e consult answered the day after. We can book F2f a few days later. But I know a different surgery in a other area who has told patients that their next appointments available to see a Gp is October.

@Paquerette who do you think sees the E-consult first? Not the Gp. The reception staff see them and put them on screen for the doctor. Urgent to less urgent order. The doctor doesn't tell them when the appointment will be. It's just on their screen and the E-consult is saved in your records for the Gp to view.

@Intercity225

In addition, GPs are now catching up with serious illness such as cancer...but you want your ears checked for earwax so I just can't understand why the GP didn't prioritise you over possible cancer cases???

Apparently, I have a tiny canal in my left ear, and it is now getting completely blocked by ear wax every 3 months. When it is blocked, I suffer tinnitus, hearing loss and a feeling of pressure in my ear - it drives me bonkers, and really affects the quality of my life! It may not be as serious as cancer, but GPs don't just deal with cancer all day; and I believe I should be able to get treatment for my blocked ear on the NHS, rather than having to pay for 2 sessions of micro suctioning every 3 months.

If not, we would like a rebate on the tax DH pays (and DH has been a higher rate tax payer for over 30 years), so we can pay for private health care.

Rebate that's just unrealistic. Everyone pays for state education whether or not they have children, or privately educate. Public health care benefits society, as does education.

You say you have the money so pay. It's cheaper than the hairdresser.

We use Specsavers around here

www.specsavers.co.uk/hearing/earwax/earwax-removal?gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1293573&gclid=CjwKCAjw9aiIBhA1EiwAJ_GTSjgdWhvKfAVXxxwkHwW8U40-Q1QScGQHUSvcFe77eieGBjatXZJRMBoCY9AQAvD_BwE

@Nightlystroll

Triage at our surgery works like this. You ring and have to tell all your symptoms to the receptionist. (Had to do this before covid too.) They write everything down. They then make an appointment for someone to ring you and triage you. Usually in a week's time and it could be any time of day. Don't be fooled in thinking that because they say they'll ring between 2 and 6, that they won't ring you at 9.30. And if they do ring at 9.30 and you don't answer twice, you're off their list and you have to ring to make an appointment to be triaged again in another week. So then a nurse rings you, gets you to state all your symptoms that you have already told to the receptionist. They then make an appointment for you to speak to a doctor or nurse practitioner...in about 3 weeks. If you're unlucky, you have to ring the receptionist to make the appointment yourself. You then get a call from the doctor (again, any time, can be knocked off list). You then go through your symptoms again. Then you get an appointment to come in or they give a prescription even if they think it won't work (but it keeps you quiet. - actually had a doctor all but say that.)

A friends surgery put a notice on the locked surgery door saying that contacting the surgery is not always the best action to take. That's right, just nip into the builders merchants and get them to slop some plaster on your broken leg. British people - no imagination. 🤔

You wouldn't go the the Gp surgery with a broken leg anyway 🤔

[quote justasking111]We use Specsavers around here

www.specsavers.co.uk/hearing/earwax/earwax-removal?gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1293573&gclid=CjwKCAjw9aiIBhA1EiwAJ_GTSjgdWhvKfAVXxxwkHwW8U40-Q1QScGQHUSvcFe77eieGBjatXZJRMBoCY9AQAvD_BwE[/quote]
Exactly. So no idea why PPs are paying £100-200 just for someone to look in their ear. More money than sense.

You wouldn't go the the Gp surgery with a broken leg anyway 🤔

Er, yes, you might. My neighbours son hurt his leg playing football. Ee was,still walking around though. She told him to stop moaning. Eventually she took him to the doctors. He had broken a bone in his leg. So it does happen.

No, I don't think there's a plan to "erode" the NHS by "stealth". Given that the NHS has been under the control of a Conservative Government for far longer over the years than it has been controlled by a Labour one, why have they waited until now? Actually, if anything, our GP service has improved, insofar as waiting times are concerned, over the last couple of years,

My partner works within the NHS (senior consultant), he says the government is issuing protocols that when followed will bit by bit bring it's downfall. The pandemic was used as an excuse to bring this about sooner. Practices who used to still function and see patients now need to jump through hoops and devise new local protocols to combat those issued by the government. This means more work for the same pay, of course the majority would rather not go down that lane.

You say you have the money so pay. It's cheaper than the hairdresser.

I may do now. DH could drop dead tomorrow, seeing as he has not been able to get a face to face appointment with the cardiology department since March 2020. Would someone, just living on the state pension be able to afford £200 every 3 months? I don't think so, nor would they be able to afford a hairdresser for £200 a time!

Is tinnitus, hearing loss and pressure in the ear medical problems or not? There shouldn't be this creeping privatisation of NHS services, like dentistry, now ear syringing, etc - because the point of the NHS was to maintain the health of the work force, by giving equal access to it for all. If I say, this tinnitus and hearing loss are driving me bonkers, I can't cope with caring for DDs, I will look to Social Services and the CCG to fund that extra care, the country won't be saving any money!

@IvyM. Ooo, thank you. It's always interesting to hear from someone in the know. I read GPs had been told to get back to face to face appointments if patients requested it, but GPs were complaining about that and wanted to keep triage and phone consults. But from what you say it sounds that that has been reported wrong and the govt is actually trying to stop face to face consults by introducing awkward protocols. Have I got that right? It's so hard to know what to believe these days.

Does it matter who sees the eConsult first? All eConsult submissions have to be seen by a Dr, and a reply sent or appointment booked within 48 hours. If you’re struggling to get through on the phone to book an appointment or the receptionist is refusing to book you in, the eConsult guarantees that a Dr has triaged your medical problem.

@OhWhyNot

Zotter you would have to have public backing to move on to a system like they have in the US

You absolutely would not have it here. There needs to be decisions on what the NHS will fund and eBay can be funded through insurance

People in the US have a very different attitude towards healthcare than we do here. Any party that moved took away the NHS will be in opposition for a long time

The NHS really isn’t fantastic we should have a better service but we need to pay more what it was set up for is not what the NHS now provides as medical science has expanded and we are living a lot longer

Ridiculous amounts of money is wasted in the NHS but the money has to be spent to be accumulated foe next year it’s needs a change it can not cover every healthcare aspect we expect the NHS to

Such discussions aren’t happening. Only moves to creeping privatisation. Agree we need to pay more. Other European countries pay higher % of GDP on healthcare.

It’s true tories threatening to privatise the NHS has been said since the 70's but unlike justanotherlurker (with their tiresome accusation in so many threads that people lack critical thinking skills) I believe Tories are managing to inch us closer than ever.

Now the government is planning NHS legislation in England that will allow for more American-style privatisation. In July Conservative MPs voted for the Health and Care Bill through its second reading in Parliament.

“Campaigners warn that the Bill will increase the private sector’s involvement in the NHS and have called for Health Secretary Sajid Javid to withdraw it. Among their concerns are proposed changes to the rules for contracting NHS services. Current legislation requires a process of compulsory competitive tendering for NHS services, but the Bill would end this requirement.

Campaigners say that this would make it much easier for services to be contracted to the private sector without the appropriate checks and balances.

Concerns have also been raised about the introduction of integrated care system boards, which will bring together bodies working within the NHS — including private firms — to work on public health strategy.”

• to clarify that is only moves to creeping privatisation for profit model. Not non profit insurance models.

HmmmmmmInteresting. I’m patient. A few key evidence sources to start, perhaps. Not anecdotes, not scaremongering stories but good solid evidence. Say, five sources?

BMA concerned. www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/health-and-care-bill-bma-demands-greater-protection-for-patients-and-nhs

Sorry too ill to write more today.

@Anonawoman

I think some are assuming the Dr triages the e consult they don’t! And the reply in 48 hours can simply be “your e consult will be seen by the GP next Wednesday” it doesn’t have to be a resolution or answer often the gp won’t see the e consult until the week after it was sent /whenever a slot is available and sometimes the reply will be “please call the surgery to book a face to face appt” so they aren’t the short cut that some people seem to think. They still count as an appt and take up the GP time so are pencilled in as a slot. However yes they are very useful if you don’t want to wait on the phone! A good time to ring if you don’t need an urgent appt is in the afternoon it’s not as manic.

I don’t think that the eConsult is as crap as you think. You get a feedback form a couple of days after your eConsult which asks quite a lot of detail about whether you heard from the GP within the 48 hours, whether you got a GP appointment/referral/whether your problem has been resolved.

@Wintercoffee you think the govt shouldn't pay for your vitamins ???!!