To think the difficulty in seeing a GP is a plan to erode NHS treatment by stealth

[DuckyMcDuck]

It is still impossible to get an appointment at our GPs so over the last couple of weeks we have had to pay for appointment to a) check my ears for ear wax and b) to pay a podiatrist to sort out of DS's ingrowing toenail (as he was in a lot of pain and they said it would be at least a months wait for a referral)

Both cost us over £100, now we are lucky we can pay for it but AIBU to think these are treatments that should have been sorted by a GPs visit.

@Justanotherlurker

We’re sleepwalking into a US style system in which the fortunate get the best care — albeit with hefty premiums and co-pays — and the unfortunate are bankrupted or can’t afford their insulin.

The tories threatening to privatise the NHS has been a meme since the 70's, those still using it needs to use their apparent critical thinking skills that they like to openly profess.

Apart from getting into the lockdown narrative, whats needed is maybe actually following up what the 'online left' have been trying to promote for years and we follow the nordic model of healthcare which does require some privatisation/insurance and paying for GP visits etc, as in we need a proper discussion instead of flogging a dead horse that assumes any kind of reform of the NHS is automitically assumed to be going down the US route, and no bring up a certain book doesn't prove that you are right.

That’s my point. A discussion needs to be had, but it won’t happen. All that will happen is that the NHS will continue to be underfunded and more and more people will turn to private provision, and we will have a US system by stealth. It’s already happening.

That's been happening for decades though.

I’ve seen a GP when I’ve needed to for serious issues , I wouldn’t have even attempted to try and see a GP for earwax without trying the over the counter remedies and even then it would be a practice nurse

And the fact that some people are only noticing after years and years of this when they can't get a GP to look at their ear wax...

Shows why it's been going on for so long.

It's been in the news for years and years.

Loads of doctors going on about it.
Concern.
Outsourcing to private.
Carving out the easy stuff to private.
Putting various clinics under tight profit driven control, which means consultants can't do their full job and patients need more spots
And on and on.
Politicians etc banging on about it for years.

But...

I can't get a GP to look at my ear wax! Omg GPs (self employed) are conspiring to bring down the NHS!

Hopeless.

@SimonJT

The majority of GPs do not work for the NHS, they are mainly private business that bill the NHS for their time.

This.

Almost all GPs are private businesses.

Large swathes of what we think of as the NHS are already private businesses - for example Virgin Care provide minor injury units, district nursing, sexual health clinics...

@Upamountain43

No but there is definite plan to change the GP system. Not sure how yet but it is unlikely GP's will exist in the same way in 10 - 20 years time. They are seen as unsustainable and expensive for what they actually do - which is predominantly gatekeep secondary care.

Some countries do not have anything like a GP system so it is perfectly possible to run without them.

By whom are GP’s seen as expensive and unsustainable? In reality GP’s see about 90% of NHS patients but cost a tiny proportion of the NHS budget. I do think there are plans afoot to change our primary health care and this will be aimed at reducing its cost. This will not be a positive thing for patients in my opinion. We do not attract enough doctors to train as GP’s and many practices are struggling to fill vacancies, you may care to ponder on why that might be; it is clearly not an easy option and many GP’s have taken early retirement due to stress and burnout. The rate of suicide among doctors is highest amongst GP’s.

Yabu, ear wax is not a medical issue and gp wouldn't be cutting out a toenail anyway.

I think expectations of the NHS are unrealistic and the sooner everyone accepts that completely free health care is unviable the better.
I have had crap health for two years starting with breast cancer so I've had my share from the NHS.
No way would I bother the GP / NHS for ear wax or podiatry as long as I could afford to pay.

I hope they do do something I can’t get an appointment at my GPS for love or money. Unless I book time off to sit on the phone all day redialling. Bloody shambles

No problem seeing my GP, ditto DH

If it's a conspiracy it's due to chronic under funding of the NHS. GPs have run themselves ragged this year trying to maintain business as usual and deliver the vaccination program. They were already desperately understaffed. No-one studies medicine for 10+ years in the UK with the intention of making money rather than helping people. There are much easier ways for these very intellectually gifted people to make money. Most GPs are doing their level best to meet their their registered patients health needs but there is just not enough hours in the day to do it with the current staff available.

My GP has been amazing. I was diagnosed with bipolar January 2020 and the support I’ve had from the 2 GPs I’ve spoken to about this has been amazing. They’ve seen me face to face when I developed a tremor due to medications. I’ve also been in for an examination when I found a lump.

In my job I send tasks for prescriptions for patients and GPs are actioning these as early as 6am and as late as 11pm. Just because you can’t see them working theres a lot going on behind the scenes!

I've been trying to see a GP because I'm in utter agony with my hips. It's been getting progressively worse over the lockdowns, but despite trying several times, I've been unable to get past the receptionists. They flat out refuse to give me a GP appointment and say it has to be a self referral to physio, not a GP. I personally think it's connected to the perimenopause which I really wanted to discuss with a GP but I just can't get near them.

Our GPs have been impossible to get hold of for years.

Have you tried.

Asking for a nurse practitioner appt for peri. If they think issue they will put you to GP.

The self referral to physio- on NHS I assume? Sounds good. They are very highly qualified. Do that. Get examined. They will have the time to get full history. If they think needed they will refer to consultant.

Waiting time might be an issue but. I think that sounds appropriate.

Include hip probs when you get to talk about peri symptoms. Keep that appt focused on the peri though.

That's my advice.

Don't mix the things up.

You will have better luck if you are one thing at a time.

Peri- call surgery. Nurse appt to start is normal and fine. Write your symptoms down before calling.

I didn't know you could self refer for physio. Easy to do then. Do that. They know hips and are IME really good.

Good luck!

In Wales some conditions are not offered on the NHS haven't been for years

Ear wax Specsavers

Toenail podiatrist

Vitamins go to Boots.

Yep yep

Although I don't know that vitamins as in normal doses were ever available.

There's loads they don't do here now.

Here's the list drawn up over three years ago

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/29/nhs-wields-the-axe-on-17-unnecessary-procedures

It was just as impossible for me to see a GP 25 years ago. So I disagree that your experience means there's anything new or different happening now. As it happens, in recent years my same GP seems to have got their act together, and are fairly easy to see now.

Zotter you would have to have public backing to move on to a system like they have in the US

You absolutely would not have it here. There needs to be decisions on what the NHS will fund and eBay can be funded through insurance

People in the US have a very different attitude towards healthcare than we do here. Any party that moved took away the NHS will be in opposition for a long time

The NHS really isn’t fantastic we should have a better service but we need to pay more what it was set up for is not what the NHS now provides as medical science has expanded and we are living a lot longer

Ridiculous amounts of money is wasted in the NHS but the money has to be spent to be accumulated foe next year it’s needs a change it can not cover every healthcare aspect we expect the NHS to

I dont think the Tories are plotting to ditch the NHS, I think they are actively doing so.
But re my GP - Ive seen mine twice since Covid began and also seen the nurse. Ive actually found seeing my GP a bit easier due to Covid because they now have a triage system in place which seems to help prioritise who needs an appointment and when - prior to Covid you could just phone up and book, now you have to state a reason and have a phone appt initially. Ive no idea if thats just my local practice or all surgeries.

@Notebooksarefabulous

I dont think the Tories are plotting to ditch the NHS, I think they are actively doing so. But re my GP - Ive seen mine twice since Covid began and also seen the nurse. Ive actually found seeing my GP a bit easier due to Covid because they now have a triage system in place which seems to help prioritise who needs an appointment and when - prior to Covid you could just phone up and book, now you have to state a reason and have a phone appt initially. Ive no idea if thats just my local practice or all surgeries.

Maybe that's it then. The triage is telling someone with ear wax to deal with it themselves and rightly so.

@Daphnise

The GPs who locked their doors, and didn't answer the phone during the time of COVID, and some no doubt still are doing this, were not acting out of some NHS overall plan, but just to suit themselves, and avoid patients.

this ^^ the GPs are the gateway to treatment and should be earning the amount they receive for each patient on their books (whether they see them or not) under their very generous contracts. Some GPs are seeing patients and doing their job. OP - some GPs have not done ear wax removal, moles or ingrowing toenails for quite a while now.

GPs are short in supply. As are a number of other trades and professions. I don't see it as part of the plan to increase private providers in the NHS though.

@Notebooksarefabulous

I dont think the Tories are plotting to ditch the NHS, I think they are actively doing so. But re my GP - Ive seen mine twice since Covid began and also seen the nurse. Ive actually found seeing my GP a bit easier due to Covid because they now have a triage system in place which seems to help prioritise who needs an appointment and when - prior to Covid you could just phone up and book, now you have to state a reason and have a phone appt initially. Ive no idea if thats just my local practice or all surgeries.

We used to have a triage system….it was great

Now we have a shit ring for same day appointment which is pants 😀