To think the difficulty in seeing a GP is a plan to erode NHS treatment by stealth

[DuckyMcDuck]

It is still impossible to get an appointment at our GPs so over the last couple of weeks we have had to pay for appointment to a) check my ears for ear wax and b) to pay a podiatrist to sort out of DS's ingrowing toenail (as he was in a lot of pain and they said it would be at least a months wait for a referral)

Both cost us over £100, now we are lucky we can pay for it but AIBU to think these are treatments that should have been sorted by a GPs visit.

@OverByYer

I hope they do do something I can’t get an appointment at my GPS for love or money. Unless I book time off to sit on the phone all day redialling. Bloody shambles

Have a look at your GP’s website to see if they do eConsult. It’s an online consultation service with your GP, not the receptionist, and they’re supposed to answer within 48 hours. I used the service last week, and the GP’s receptionist called me the next day to book an appointment with the GP for the following day.

Every year each govt, regardless of party, spends more on NHS than they did in the previous year. I don't see how anyone can say it's being run into the ground. No govt will ever be able to provide enough money to pay all staff as much as they believe they deserve and fund every treatment all patients want.

@Westchesterarms

Every year each govt, regardless of party, spends more on NHS than they did in the previous year. I don't see how anyone can say it's being run into the ground. No govt will ever be able to provide enough money to pay all staff as much as they believe they deserve and fund every treatment all patients want.

I agree. The use of the monies is the problem.

Bureaucracy, managers, etc etc etc

Then the staff start striking for massive pay rises. Patients want everything paid for including cheap iron tablets and vitamins.

It isn't underfunded people just say that when it doesn't give them what they want

In England we have a shortage of doctors and doctors training places in comparison with many European nations.

This is quite an interesting read from the BMA.

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/workforce/medical-staffing-in-england-report

The GP asked me to go in the other week due to an ear problem. We now send a written request to the portal with symptoms. The GP rang me the same day and saw me the same day. Symptoms were: throbbing and sometimes sharp pain, feeling of pressure, loss of hearing, responsive to paracetamol. Evidently my ear was very swollen, very red and very sore due to compacted ear wax (the other ear was following suit). Dr prescribed drops and recommended microsuction which is available but for an hour every third Thursday when there's a new moon at a neighbouring practice. I have no issue paying £55 at specsavers for an appointment at my convenience.

I have found during covid that the emergency stuff is pretty well dealt with and the portal is much much better (sciatica, basal cell csrcinoma and now the ears). Needed the Dr far more than !at other times .

The bit that isn't done well is the routine stuff and anything that requires one phoning the practice when inevitably the telephone/receptionist staff are heavy handed, rude and appear unable to follow a request. They also appear to have zero respect for the time of the patient and expect one to be able to drop everything on a whim, whereas the Drs/GPs are always more respectful.

Yes, you should buy your own vitamins ffs

Hardly self funding a breast cancer drug is it?

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

There are quite a few no shows for GP appointments and plenty of regulars who take up time with something that could be sorted by a pharmacy visit. I think we will end up paying for GP appointments with discounts/free apps only going to those with a strong medical need.

Maybe surgeries could have walk-in clinics for children or some sort of triage system to reduce pressure on gp appointments

Your problem isn’t lack of open GP surgery, OP. Things like removal of earwax and ingrown toenails are really issues you can fix yourself. A kit for ingrown toenails costs £9.99 on Amazon, and a product called Audiclean costs around £7.30. I wouldn’t bother my GP with those unless I’d had no success with the diy route personally.
When my DS broke his arm, he was put to the back of the queue by countless people going to A&E for minor issues that should have been handled by basic first aid from parents. He ended up having to wait for more than 24 hours for his arm to be reset and then put in plaster because of this! I despair at the lack of basic self-care skills that cause huge pressure on the NHS because of attitudes like this...

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

Well, yeah, I don't for a second believe someone charged £100 to look in their ear

Why not? Private dr is about that much

That's a good screw seeing as it takes two minutes to do

And you can get ear wax removed, not just your ears checked for about £50

I don’t believe that GPs are conspiring to facilitate the demise of the NHS as we know it. I do believe that (at our surgery, anyway) they use the almost impenetrable booking system to bring down the number of patients they see (in person or online) to match the number of appointments available.

@Westchesterarms

Every year each govt, regardless of party, spends more on NHS than they did in the previous year. I don't see how anyone can say it's being run into the ground. No govt will ever be able to provide enough money to pay all staff as much as they believe they deserve and fund every treatment all patients want.

This isn't true and isn't accurate reflection of the reality. Sadly people believe the headlines - has anyone asked where all those promised shiny new hospitals are? No, because they don't exist and were never funded. The pay rise for nurses? Unfunded - so means further cuts to services. The peak spending for NHS as percentage of GDP was in 2010 . It has since fallen despite an increasing challenging population.

theconversation.com/the-nhs-explained-in-eight-charts-91854

@Westchesterarms

Every year each govt, regardless of party, spends more on NHS than they did in the previous year. I don't see how anyone can say it's being run into the ground. No govt will ever be able to provide enough money to pay all staff as much as they believe they deserve and fund every treatment all patients want.

Yeah, I don't agree with the underfunding argument. The NHS is extremely inefficient and no amount of money will solve that.

HmmmmmmInteresting and yet, experts like teh Kings fund would suggest that the NHS is one of he most efficient healthcare systems in the world.
What are you meaning by efficient and what is your evidence base?

I don’t think so

For real urgent appointments (i.e. not pedicures or bring curious about how much ear wax I have), have always been able to get same day GP appointment.

@LemonRoses. In 2019 health care was at 10.2% of GDP compared to 9.8% in 2010. Its stayed pretty static overall. Sorry, I don't know how to make the link clicky. You'll have to copy and paste.

www.statista.com/statistics/317708/healthcare-expenditure-as-a-share-of-gdp-in-the-united-kingdom/

The problem is no matter how much any govt spends, it will never be enough.

the thing is - all of you advocating the use of e-consult and how wonderful it is do not realise it is not available in all GPs surgery - it is very much a postcode lottery like a lot of NHS care/treatment

Talking of levelling up - which I hesitate to do - if something is developed that is better than constantly trying to get through to the surgery about a serious matter (let alone ear wax) and it operates a triage in a more efficient way - surely it should be available to all NHS patients.

Yabu to expect to be seen urgently for either of those things mentioned.

My GP surgery has been fab. I have had same day telephone appointments with GPs when requested and in person ones where they felt it necessary. I have had routine telephone follow ups too instigated by the GP. I have also been seen at minor injuries and A&E when needed so no complaints from me, it is a shame others have not had the same experience.

It does seem a very badly structured and organised beast. While my GP surgery has gone 'rogue' if you like and instigated telephone triage off its own back well before covid, the same trust has a maternity service that has bought into an app (Badger maternity notes) that literally doesn't work. It doesn't talk to all of their systems but has been rolled out anyway. How on earth has that happened? Can't be blamed on covid, or underfunding, surely, so how have they ended up in that situation. They've shut the birth unit due to staffing but are persisting with a continuity of carer model that triggered a lot of the staffing issues (from what I can gather) in the first place. Again, how?

I imagine this is the same chain of thought and command as how lots of posters have ended up finding GP services a nightmare. Sticky ears and pointy toes aside, of course.

Triage at our surgery works like this. You ring and have to tell all your symptoms to the receptionist. (Had to do this before covid too.) They write everything down. They then make an appointment for someone to ring you and triage you. Usually in a week's time and it could be any time of day. Don't be fooled in thinking that because they say they'll ring between 2 and 6, that they won't ring you at 9.30. And if they do ring at 9.30 and you don't answer twice, you're off their list and you have to ring to make an appointment to be triaged again in another week. So then a nurse rings you, gets you to state all your symptoms that you have already told to the receptionist. They then make an appointment for you to speak to a doctor or nurse practitioner...in about 3 weeks. If you're unlucky, you have to ring the receptionist to make the appointment yourself. You then get a call from the doctor (again, any time, can be knocked off list). You then go through your symptoms again. Then you get an appointment to come in or they give a prescription even if they think it won't work (but it keeps you quiet. - actually had a doctor all but say that.)

A friends surgery put a notice on the locked surgery door saying that contacting the surgery is not always the best action to take. That's right, just nip into the builders merchants and get them to slop some plaster on your broken leg. British people - no imagination. 🤔

This is interesting - In 1950 we were spending 3.5% of GDP on healthcare, and has been rising pretty much every year, bar a couple of 0.1% points ever since.

The main problem is that many people expect too much, pp's an example, and healthcare has moved on, without the realignment of peoples expectation.

In 1950 many ailments were untreatable, people died younger, and babies born with issues were not routinely treated.

Now we have surgeries and treatments costing millions, we try to save everyone, we extend life in all scenarios. But we still want paracetamol and vitamins "on the NHS". NICE go a good job in looking into cost/benefit analyses for drugs, but still there is always a furore when a new drug is not approved. I think we really need to have a grown up discussion on self help and self reliance for non-complex day to day issues.

Sorry forgot the link:
www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/health-and-social-care-explained/nhs-reform-timeline/

In addition, GPs are now catching up with serious illness such as cancer...but you want your ears checked for earwax so I just can't understand why the GP didn't prioritise you over possible cancer cases???

Apparently, I have a tiny canal in my left ear, and it is now getting completely blocked by ear wax every 3 months. When it is blocked, I suffer tinnitus, hearing loss and a feeling of pressure in my ear - it drives me bonkers, and really affects the quality of my life! It may not be as serious as cancer, but GPs don't just deal with cancer all day; and I believe I should be able to get treatment for my blocked ear on the NHS, rather than having to pay for 2 sessions of micro suctioning every 3 months.

If not, we would like a rebate on the tax DH pays (and DH has been a higher rate tax payer for over 30 years), so we can pay for private health care.