Can you ask for dc to be taken into care?

[WitsEnd9]

Name changed for this..
Never thought in a million years I’d say this. I look at my youngest and can’t imagine ever feeling this way or saying this about him in 10 years. But we are where we are…

My oldest is 15, 16 next month. Things are really bad. They’re smoking cannabis and dabbling in other things. Out all hours. I’m reporting them missing to the police at least once a week. They’re involved in criminal activity which wasn’t necessarily through choice so the main priority from a safeguarding point of view is getting them away from those people, which seems to have happened.

But even taking them away from those people, which removes immediate risk, still leaves me with a child who is disrespectful and is making my life hell. I don’t know what else I can do, I can’t see it ever getting better. There’s moments, when we talk, where I can still see my child, we have really honest and frank conversations and I think I’ve gotten through to them but the pull of their social circle is too strong and once they’re out the door they don’t give a shit.

There’s lots of social services, police, school involvement.
But at what point am I allowed to say I can’t do this anymore?? I’m sick of not being able to go to bed, having to wait up in case they come home, or for the police to arrive once I’ve made a missing person report (which I have to do after a certain time). I’m sick of neighbours seeing the police here. Sick of worrying about the effect on my youngest. Worried about repercussions from the people she’s hanging around with effecting me or youngest or putting us in danger.
Fed up of not being able to make plans or do anything and everything revolving around their choices.
But most of all sick of feeling so powerless. I feel like if this was a relationship everyone would be screaming at me to leave, but because it’s my child I’m supposed to just put up with it yet the effects on my life and mental health are the same.

I’ve done everything in my power to help, constantly letting things go to try again, for their sake, because they need me and need help. But it’s just not sustainable.

[tcjotm]

[quote WitsEnd9]@Zen88 Interesting but I don’t think so. She was depressed for years, overdoses, self harm. She started medication in January which gradually helped but soon after the depression lifted, all of this started. She takes her medication erratically now, and obviously is mixing with recreational drugs so doctors and therapists can’t monitor the effectiveness of medication or her condition. There was talk of ‘her real personality coming out now the depression has lifted’ and possible adhd but that was quickly ruled out. I don’t think this is her true personality.[/quote]
Sorry, I see someone else asked.

Nothing you say here rules out bipolar disorder to me.
Obviously I can’t diagnose it but I would want a psychiatrist rule give a definitive no before it was taken off the table. A lot of what you say screams bipolar.
Treatment for bipolar disorder can be life changing. Hypomania/mania (more extreme) can feel great at times but it’s also this horrible relentless energy that makes being in your own skin exhausting and self medicating with weed or alcohol is so so common. Lashing out because you just can’t be calm. And then you come out of it and are depressed and it goes on. It’s a very destructive lifelong illness and I don’t wish it on her but if she does have it, treatment (medications like lithium for example) can really help.

[CatNameChange101]

[quote Popsicle438]Why not apply for a place at a state boarding school?

www.raa-school.co.uk/foundationers.asp[/quote]
Because the majority can’t pay £1400 a month for education?! The OP has already said she’s a single parent with another child with SEN. State boarding doesn’t mean free.

[tcjotm]

[quote MinnieJackson]@tcjotm I was thinking similar, but at obviously at 15 you don't want to label. OP, are you scared of your dd? It all seems so manic with no come down.when she's home does she stay in her room, or is she apologetic? X[/quote]
No, I agree, not to label but important to know if she is.

I went over twenty years before my diagnosis. Very difficult years (though different to OPs daughter)

People with bipolar disorder are more likely to end up in jail or have harm come to them or to die from suicide than the average population. Much more. It’s very sobering.

[MinnieJackson]

@tcjotm you seem loads more experienced than me with bipolar. Do you still prescribe Lithium for that?

[tcjotm]

@MinnieJackson I take it rather than prescribe it 😊

But yes, lithium is still very commonly prescribed. Nowadays there are other medications they can also try but good old (been around for ages!) lithium is still one of the really solid treatment options. I’ve been on it 6 7 years or so. You have to have blood tests periodically to check the levels but I don’t have any side effects.

It really evens out the highs and lows. It’s been life changing.

[MinnieJackson]

@tcjotm thanks for answering. I didn't read all the thread and didn't know, obviously, what it feels like to take lithium. Could you describe it?
For 12 years I've been on...citalopram, sertraline, medazalam, lorazepam, diazepam...so I kinda know about drugs that are used to treat depression and anxiety, but now how they make me feel lol

[tcjotm]

@MinnieJackson lol, I hear you, we start to feel like pharmacy experts.

Lithium makes me feel normal. Possibly a bit flat - part of me misses the drama of the highs - but rather than so depressed I can’t move I tend to feel a bit down and rather than ‘ok, it’s only 2am, plenty of time to totally declutter the whole house before going to work’ I can mostly be a normal person who goes to bed and doesn’t make crazy grandiose plans all the time.

It basically makes depression less severe and takes away the restless energy that makes me do crazy things. Which is safer but makes life boring. I’m in my 40s, boring is fine. That’s going to be harder on a teenager though.

[MinnieJackson]

@tcjotm thank you for telling me a tiny part of your story, there's so much taboo and mystery, almost like it's contagious, around mental health. I think now more than ever peoples mental health conditions are being recognised, but maybe only the common ones. (I'm diagnosed with depression, anxiety and GAD) my other diagnoses are GAD with panic disorder, OCD, and my absolute worst that I wouldn't wish on anyone, is my agoraphobia with panic disorder 😣 but to be honest, I don't want any light shined on it. I think I say that because it's pretty rare, people think youre mad, everyone tries to fix you, people think you live in your house and never go out... I don't much, but logistics of everything takes time and planning.

[Rudeppl]

Move to Ireland.

[Rudeppl]

To the countryside. At least that’s what my aunt did for my cousin. There are zero ways of getting around and out and about. Public transport is non existent too. She was removed from her London social circle and thrived as a result

[Pixxie7]

There must be something else have you thought of asking the police if they can help.shorty sharp shock kind of thing. I agree with pp who said that it was the wrong way to go. Things will improve but my fear is that you risk loosing her forever. Good luck either way.

[squishymamma]

So sorry to hear about your situation OP

I wondered if there was a similar aged female family member/trusted person your DD could go to, that is outside of her social circle? Your DD sounds very similar to how my DSis was at that age, she began at 12 when she was brought home blacked out from alcohol by 2 women who'd found her on the street...continued to meddle in all sorts etc all through her teenage years.

Now she's in her mid 20s and has a job, bought a house with her DP etc. Have to say she does occasionally still do MDMA if on a night out but that's fairly common (sadly) where we live...

My point here is that I am 4 years older and she used me as her "anchor" point if that makes sense. Our DM was obviously worried, tried to help, despaired over the situation etc, but I guess having someone a similar(ish) age worked better for DSis than accepting help from/talking with her DM. So I was always on standby to pick up from parties, helped her get out of some questionable situations I don't think DM knows about even now. Maybe because I didn't have any kind of authority over her?

Does your DD have anyone that could do that for her? I know it's asking a lot of someone but it might help her so could be worth a try.

DSis was also under camhs for a while, there's something that happened around that day when she was 12 that she point blank refuses to tell anyone, even her DP, but sadly it didn't really help her. But worth remembering that it's not on you to fix her MH, she may be acting out/doing things impulsively and not just to annoy or upset you, and you're doing an amazing job wishing you the best of luck!!

[Gubanc]

Some of these suggestions... OP is a single mum. She may not be able to just sell up and move, cut her hours, send her to boarding school. Ffs... you people live in a bubble.

[MoreAloneTime]

OP if you can't cope then you can't cope. SS don't care if you run yourself into the ground.

I'd stop staying up and phoning the police and catch up on some sleep in the short term before making a decision though.

[loosingmymarbles]

Hope your okay op, i know someone who as in a similar situation. She sent her son into care an he got moved far away for these reasons. He's literally changed his life around. Got a brilliant engineering job and waiting to get his own place and seems be thriving !

[Summersnake]

No one in the care system will care for your child like you do .
Why do you think children who have been through it are so damaged .

[Topofthepopicles]

Is there any possibility she could have been sexually abused or assaulted/raped?

The reason I ask is the ‘going off the rails’ and self harm via alcohol/drugs can be ways young people use to mask the pain and she quite likely wouldn’t have told you.

I really hope this is a total red herring. But might be worth considering.

[CloseYourEyesAndSee]

@Summersnake

No one in the care system will care for your child like you do .
Why do you think children who have been through it are so damaged .

Children who have been in care are usually 'damaged' because they have experienced neglect and abuse before they came into care. The care system can compound this simply because it's impossible to mitigate against that harm.

[NotWanting]

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Someone who knows what they are talking about !
It's so convenient to blame 'being in care' rather than the parents who have inflicted trauma on their children in the first place.

[CloseYourEyesAndSee]

[quote NotWanting]@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Someone who knows what they are talking about !
It's so convenient to blame 'being in care' rather than the parents who have inflicted trauma on their children in the first place.[/quote]
Yep
Children being subject to multiple moves is harmful and children being raised by people with whom they do not have attach relationships is harmful (though nobody's fault) but the harm comes from primarily the abuse and neglect, and secondarily from the separation from primary attachment figures, albeit abusive or neglectful ones. Some children do really well after coming into care because they are able to attach to their carers and vice versa and some of the harm is able to be repaired but that doesn't happen to all - especially those who come into care later.

[MiniTheMinx]

@Summersnake

No one in the care system will care for your child like you do .
Why do you think children who have been through it are so damaged .

Children go into the care system damaged.
I've worked with children so damaged by trauma they are stripping in public, pissing in the street, crawling or laying down in public, screaming, throwing furniture and self harming, jumping on parked cars and trying to throttle other children. I've seen good outcomes. Often the problem is that children are left in unimaginable circumstances and action is taken too slow to safeguard these children.

The thing here is that contextual safeguarding in theory is fine, in practice a shambles, unworkable. What interventions can occur outside of the home to keep the DD safe? If the protective factor of "good enough parenting" is no longer sufficient in keeping her safe what interventions are SW and police putting in place? none it would seem.

[Popsicle438]

31CatNameChange101

Popsicle438

Why not apply for a place at a state boarding school?

//www.raa-school.co.uk/foundationers.asp

Because the majority can’t pay £1400 a month for education?! The OP has already said she’s a single parent with another child with SEN. State boarding doesn’t mean free.

But the OP has said she will look at the option of state boarding. Being a single parent doesn't always mean a shortage of money.

[JSL52]

@VanillaIce1

OP does she have additional needs? I behaved like this and now later down the line I believe I had ADHD it presents so differently in females. It's not that I didn't love my family I was just very impulsive, I liked the attention but also part of me didn't know how to "behave" and make the correct choices I was very easily lead. It was bloody hard for my family though and It does get to a point where it just gets to much.

I came on to say exactly the same thing. Same here.

[WitsEnd9]

I will mention the adhd and bipolar theories to camhs but I don’t want it to look like I’m trying to find something to blame.
She scored so low on the adhd questionnaire though that they immediately discounted it. But it was asking me a lot of stuff about her as a child and if I’m honest I can’t really remember what she was like in primary school because it feels like such a long time ago and so much has happened since with her and having a younger one with sen.

[HoundofHades]

A friend went through similar with her then aged 15 year old son a few years back, @WitsEnd9 - and begged for him to be taken into care. He was running drugs for the dealer who lived next door to them, was aggressive, had given up on school, and she had a younger child to consider, too. Within a month, he was found a bedsit several towns away, under SS direct supervision, encouraged into education again and found a new appreciation for his single parent and sibling. It turned his life around. Even when he moved home again, after a year or so, with his pregnant girlfriend, he was able to avoid his past mistakes - and he's now a devoted father, son and brother. It can happen - but my friend really had to push for SS to intervene. I think it took her pressing charges when he threatened her before they started to actually listen to her fears both of and for him, though.