Can you ask for dc to be taken into care?

[WitsEnd9]

Name changed for this..
Never thought in a million years I’d say this. I look at my youngest and can’t imagine ever feeling this way or saying this about him in 10 years. But we are where we are…

My oldest is 15, 16 next month. Things are really bad. They’re smoking cannabis and dabbling in other things. Out all hours. I’m reporting them missing to the police at least once a week. They’re involved in criminal activity which wasn’t necessarily through choice so the main priority from a safeguarding point of view is getting them away from those people, which seems to have happened.

But even taking them away from those people, which removes immediate risk, still leaves me with a child who is disrespectful and is making my life hell. I don’t know what else I can do, I can’t see it ever getting better. There’s moments, when we talk, where I can still see my child, we have really honest and frank conversations and I think I’ve gotten through to them but the pull of their social circle is too strong and once they’re out the door they don’t give a shit.

There’s lots of social services, police, school involvement.
But at what point am I allowed to say I can’t do this anymore?? I’m sick of not being able to go to bed, having to wait up in case they come home, or for the police to arrive once I’ve made a missing person report (which I have to do after a certain time). I’m sick of neighbours seeing the police here. Sick of worrying about the effect on my youngest. Worried about repercussions from the people she’s hanging around with effecting me or youngest or putting us in danger.
Fed up of not being able to make plans or do anything and everything revolving around their choices.
But most of all sick of feeling so powerless. I feel like if this was a relationship everyone would be screaming at me to leave, but because it’s my child I’m supposed to just put up with it yet the effects on my life and mental health are the same.

I’ve done everything in my power to help, constantly letting things go to try again, for their sake, because they need me and need help. But it’s just not sustainable.

[DuckPancake]

Rightly so though, it would be passing the problem on to someone else and she would likely think that she can get away with more and her behaviour will become more risky

[ODFOD21]

I take it these days you can't kick them out until 18?

[CloseYourEyesAndSee]

Some teens go into care when they are outside parental control and coming to harm. It rarely makes like better for them. You can ask but be prepared for them to refuse. They don't have to - and they may not have any options for her anyway. There genuinely are not enough foster placements for teenagers at the moment and she would be SO young to go into a hostel.

[CloseYourEyesAndSee]

@ODFOD21

I take it these days you can't kick them out until 18?

You can and they will be assessed by social services but chances are they will be sent home really. You would have to really wash your hands of them to get them into care. It's the nuclear option. Many teens end up homeless that way.

[hullaballoo19]

I'm so sorry op, I cannot understand how hard this must be for you 💐

It it helps, I have a view from the other side. My brother really went off the rails, was kicked out by my mum when he was 16. No one can know what would have happened if she'd done things differently, but my brother was more exposed to drugs following this, was homeless etc. He eventually got himself together a fair bit (but always struggled with substances), held down jobs, became a carer, had a family that he adored. (Sadly he died 7 years ago but that's not particularly relevant)

Similarly I went off the rails a bit at about 17 (never as bad as my brother though) and was kicked out at 18. I also then struggled with addiction and homelessness (I was homeless 3/4 times), a toxic relationship etc. Fortunately I managed to maintain an okay relationship with my mum throughout and now have a very close relationship with her. I've grown up and have become a woman that my mum is so proud of, and she considers me a friend as well as her daughter.

The biggest thing for me (and my brother as we did discuss it) was feeling like our mum, the person who's always supposed to be there for you, gave up on us 🙁 we both had pain and trauma from early experiences (my dad is abusive) and actually we were just struggling and needed help. I don't regret my life path at all and feel I've learned a lot from those experiences, but my mum has never gotten over feeling guilty for kicking us out (especially struggled with this since my brother death 🙁) and, as far as she's concerned, is very lucky that she managed to rebuild relationships with us.

I'm so sorry, I don't feel I'm giving good advice and I really don't want you to feel worse. I just wanted to give you the perspective of a child in similar circumstances. I really hope things work out for you and your dd. I think it's very rare that people are genuinely bad people, or 'unfixable'. And chances are your dd will grow up and 'get better' with time ❤️

[Notimeforaname]

I'm sorry it's like this op. Maybe its different in Ireland but a family friend had the same issue here, didn't want to put 15 year old in care but social services forced them to as they were a safety risk to the younger siblings.

The mum didn't want to let the child go to care but she was told she would have a case of neglect against her for her younger kids for not protecting them

Could it be framed this way,that it is disrupting your younger childs life and stopping you from protecting them?
You've clearly tried very hard to get help for your older child.

I'm not sure what is the best option here as the child I spoke about,seems to be lost in the care system here.
Was ''locked up'' for a few months for stealing and petty crime but Is in a halfway house type situation now,still running the streets, the home just calls the parents every time to say ''he's gone'' again so it doesn't stop the worry and nights awake.

We thought when he went to care the would be looked after. But instead the childs family had to keep going to court and asking them to extend the childs stay in juvie because being locked up was the only place he could be kept safe. But you cant keep locking a child up so here we are...I would say exhaust every last effort you have before asking the state to take over. I appreciate it is ruining you..but give it one last go..even if it means moving.

[AlmostSummer21]

@Royalbloo

I'd move far away

In this day and age with the Internet, that's absolutely pointless, they just find new 'friends', dealers & trouble.

[quizqueen]

Sometimes the care has to be prioritised to younger children and, of course, yourself. Time to let her go, I think, as she's had enough chances. Two years away till she's an adult may make all the difference for her to appreciate what's she's lost or it may be too late, but the ones left behind will not be dragged down so much so there will be at least two survivors.

[WitsEnd9]

Moving really won’t help. She’d just find new friends and carry on the same and id be even more fucked with no support and a younger child who would be affected really badly by moving.

They gave me a questionnaire a while back regarding adhd but it really doesn’t fit. She’s been depressed for a long time and since she’s recovered from depression she’s been like this.

We stopped all money on advice from social services and that made everything 10 times worse and led her to the wrong people as she still needed to find her cannabis habit, so found other ways. Police advice is to let her have money again. I can’t restore phone use or anything else, it’s physically not possible.

She barely goes to school, already been kicked out of one and is going into last year.

I know care isn’t the answer or the best thing for her. I just want some help. Some respite.

[WitsEnd9]

@hullaballoo19 I’m sorry to hear about your brother and thank you for sharing your story. It’s helpful to hear your perspective

[WitsEnd9]

Sometimes the care has to be prioritised to younger children and, of course, yourself. Time to let her go, I think, as she's had enough chances. Two years away till she's an adult may make all the difference for her to appreciate what's she's lost or it may be too late, but the ones left behind will not be dragged down so much so there will be at least two survivors.

This is how I think I feel but seeing someone else write it makes me feel all defensive so obviously not what I want deep down

[Antinerak]

Social services can intervene and provide support without putting them into care permanently. They may benefit from talking with a social worker, counsellor or even therapist. Contact SS, they can advise you and won't do anything unless you agree.

Do you think they have any underlying reasons why they're acting like this? Trauma, mental illness, jealousy of other siblings even? You don't have to tell us but if you think there could be a reason behind her behaving like that it could help whoever helps you both.

[Millionnewnames]

@WitsEnd9
I do apologise I read that as your son. I see it’s a DD giving you problems. Also that it’s more of a safety concern than just the fact she’s playing up. What’s the home set up like? I only ask because I gave my daughter a den outside. Just a summerhouse with a whacking great tv , console and fridge. Turned a blind eye to smoking or low level boozing and was surprised at the number of takeaways that arrived. She barely went out, just had a couple of gormless mates skulking about each evening. Huge relief. No more midnight dramas, they were probably smoking dope and shagging in there but it was safer than the streets or a crack house . It seems counter intuitive to do things like this but it might get you some peace. Just trying to think outside the box a bit .

[nocoffeenobooze]

Has she had any counselling or anything? Do you know what was causing her depression?

[WitsEnd9]

Social services already heavily involved

We don’t have a garden so no option of setting her up outside.

I think whats led to this is a combination of poor mental health and depression that she’s now ‘recovered’ from somewhat after several years. Abandonment issues regarding her Dad and a loss of friendships during covid causing her to seek companionship from anywhere she can find it, plus drug use.

The issue is the drug use led to her being indebted to a gang of older drug dealers which led to some serious stuff. I’m hoping we’re coming through the other side of that but it’s very scary.

[WitsEnd9]

@nocoffeenobooze yes she’s been under camhs for years. She’s never been able to explain why she felt that way.

[catpyjamas]

I used to work in an area of children going into and coming out of care and from my experience not all the children came out for the worse. Sometimes it's a wake up call to the child that their behaviour is out of control and sometimes they get placed with a fabulous carer or a fabulous group of other foster kids or moved to an area they really connect with and make new friends and see new GPs and social work teams and sort of start again. As pp has said she will have her own social worker and a team of support from other professionals which hopefully she will engage with.

Then of course there are some that become worse and tbh your daughter could become 'worse' now with you and that could burn a bridge with you and your other child. I think it's best to have a chat with your daughter today about things are to the point that you are considering putting her into care as you can no longer cope. Let it be her choice. Things must improve immediately or you will have to go into care. You're at least being honest with her whether she takes it on board or not.

[WitsEnd9]

I’ve discussed it with her, she acts like she doesn’t care. She often says she doesn’t want to be here.

[JM10]

I didn't see if you answered, but is there any way of doing as a pp suggested and sending her to boarding school? There are specifically for children with behaviour issues, though maybe not near you.

[Domino20]

Do you have any money that you can invest in solving the problem? There are places you can send her if you can fund it.

[EleanorOlephantisjustfine]

So she’s vulnerable and has been criminally exploited and you want to put her into care. She’ll be even more vulnerable and even more of a target for exploitation. She’s a child who’s brain is not fully developed. She’s your responsibility. To put her into care will just tell her that she’s just not worth the bother. She needs your love and support, not to be abandoned. Don’t give up on her. She’ll come out the other side at some point.

[CakeandGo]

Can you afford to help them move out at 16?
It might be better then putting them into the care system officially and would give you some space.
It might also give them a bit of a shock (living in the ‘real’ world etc).

[NinetyNineRedBalloonsGoBy]

OP it sounds like you are at breaking point. There's a superbly supportive Facebook group called Parenting Mental Health where there are many parents in similar situations who can advise you. Best wishes to you

[hullaballoo19]

Thank you @WitsEnd9, I'm really sorry you're having to go through this. Whenever I think about it all now I feel so sorry for my poor mum, she was just trying to be a good mum. I'm sure one day your dd will look back and know this about you too x

[THisbackwithavengeance]

I work with young offenders. Those on care get much more help and attention than those who are not.

You can only do so much OP.

Better for her to go into care now; then she will get help and be assigned a leaving care worker when she is 18 who will support her until she's 25.

If you stick with it and then eventually throw her out at the age of 18, she will be literally on the streets with no help at all because she's an adult.

Of course social services are urging you to stick with it, it will cost them £££ to put her in care.