Can you ask for dc to be taken into care?

[WitsEnd9]

Name changed for this..
Never thought in a million years I’d say this. I look at my youngest and can’t imagine ever feeling this way or saying this about him in 10 years. But we are where we are…

My oldest is 15, 16 next month. Things are really bad. They’re smoking cannabis and dabbling in other things. Out all hours. I’m reporting them missing to the police at least once a week. They’re involved in criminal activity which wasn’t necessarily through choice so the main priority from a safeguarding point of view is getting them away from those people, which seems to have happened.

But even taking them away from those people, which removes immediate risk, still leaves me with a child who is disrespectful and is making my life hell. I don’t know what else I can do, I can’t see it ever getting better. There’s moments, when we talk, where I can still see my child, we have really honest and frank conversations and I think I’ve gotten through to them but the pull of their social circle is too strong and once they’re out the door they don’t give a shit.

There’s lots of social services, police, school involvement.
But at what point am I allowed to say I can’t do this anymore?? I’m sick of not being able to go to bed, having to wait up in case they come home, or for the police to arrive once I’ve made a missing person report (which I have to do after a certain time). I’m sick of neighbours seeing the police here. Sick of worrying about the effect on my youngest. Worried about repercussions from the people she’s hanging around with effecting me or youngest or putting us in danger.
Fed up of not being able to make plans or do anything and everything revolving around their choices.
But most of all sick of feeling so powerless. I feel like if this was a relationship everyone would be screaming at me to leave, but because it’s my child I’m supposed to just put up with it yet the effects on my life and mental health are the same.

I’ve done everything in my power to help, constantly letting things go to try again, for their sake, because they need me and need help. But it’s just not sustainable.

[WitsEnd9]

She was referred to a drug service and won’t engage. I’ll look at the state boarding school but I don’t think they’d take her.

[nanbread]

OP can you look at therapeutic parenting / advice from parents whose children have gone through trauma as I think you may get some good advice

[Nannyamc]

Been there done all this bloody heartbreaking.
My ds moved to oz at 19 problem got worse. At 29 with a ds 6 mths he entered rehab. Was the making of him. Totally different person now. Had a horrible 10 yrs but clean now 2 years. There is hope

[LemonSwan]

You need to move.

I know you don't want to and worry about support, but you have a very short window to fix this.

If she has mental health issues and is dabbling in drugs this will end very badly if you cant get her away; and I say that as an ex-habitual drug user not a pearl clutcher.

[Trampolean]

@VanillaIce1

OP does she have additional needs? I behaved like this and now later down the line I believe I had ADHD it presents so differently in females. It's not that I didn't love my family I was just very impulsive, I liked the attention but also part of me didn't know how to "behave" and make the correct choices I was very easily lead. It was bloody hard for my family though and It does get to a point where it just gets to much.

Yes my sister was the same, she was diagnosed with ADHD once out of rehab and she is absolutely a completely different person now, it's unreal. Not saying this is absolutely the case of course, but have they supported you and her by looking into those sort of possibilities?

[LemonSwan]

And staying away from the drug service is not a bad move. I know someone whos parents made them attend a drugs anonymous group for smoking weed and party pills and they came out as a heroin addict.

[Awalkintime]

What are the police doing about the perpetrators of this exploitation/drug issues? It seems like the onus is on your DD to 'not get exploited' and they are doing bugger all about the cause of the problem.

[WitsEnd9]

@LemonSwan I’m not sure how moving could help? She has about ten different and nee groups of friends in the last few months. She will find them wherever she goes. Moving is just not an option. It’d feel like sacrificing one child (youngest) to save another.

[WitsEnd9]

@Awalkintime not a lot. We have a meeting next week. Bit hopefully she has moved away from those people, just need to hope it stays that way.

[VanillaIce1]

@Trampolean It does sound like it, I only found out I possibly have it as my children have been diagnosed with it.
I also wasn't naughty in school but soon as the hormones kicked in that was it. I also had a lot down days like I had depression because I didn't understand why I was the way I was. It sadly all makes sense now and I feel very let down sometimes!

[Josette77]

You haven't answered my question about her father but her abandonment is trauma. Joining support groups that understand parenting kids who've experienced trauma will be helpful to you both.

[LemonSwan]

I’m not sure how moving could help?

Because you said They’re involved in criminal activity which wasn’t necessarily through choice So its the exploitation thats an issue here.

You have multiple layered issues here. Moving is going to solve the above. She is too deep in the area she is in. Move and she may again find a bad group of 16 year olds who dabble in drugs and stay out too late, but the chances of landing again in the middle of a criminal network is smaller.

Then you can tackle the '16 year old off the rails and with mental health issues' - rather than the 16yo being exploited by a criminal network of older drug dealers.

[disneydreaming]

You can, although I wouldn't recommend it.

I was that child. My mum phoned social services when I was 11 as she was having a particularly difficult time with her mental health and her relationship with my father and my behaviour wasn't great due to everything happening at home.

The care system from my experience is largely broken and positive outcomes are rare especially for older children.
I ended up in a mix of care home and foster homes all over the country due to major shortages in placements at the time and witnessed, self harm, suicide attempts (sadly one successful), and drug abuse regularly and so many of the young people I lived with absconded and got involved with things like drug dealing and groomed by older men who would give them somewhere to stay while 'on the run'.

Hopefully things have changed since then (we are taking over 15 years ago) but I imagine that support needed still won't be available to those who need it and you may well find it damages your relationship beyond repair.

I still don't have the kind of relationship with my parents that I'd like, they missed so many vital years of my life and I became an adult without them really knowing me anymore. I probably still suffer to some extent from the trauma despite having now made a decent life for myself.

I would try your best to access every support available before asking for social work to find a placement and if you do possibly asking for the possibility of respite/short term care initially?

My heart goes out to you as I can imagine how heartbreaking the situation must be for you. I hope whatever decision you make things improve for you soon

[nightsoutasap]

I honestly think you should look into the boarding school thing. Four years ago, my daughter got in with a bad crowd and had a very dodgy boyfriend who was extremely controlling. We would open our curtains in the morning and see him sleeping in his car outside our house. She had bite marks all over her, and her previously exemplary behaviour at school dramatically declined, to the extent that the school called 999 when she was seen getting into his car. It came to a head when she made false allegations to the police about her step dad, who had been her main father figure since the age of four, sexually abusing her. This was retracted, but it was horrific and we could not live like it anymore. We suggested boarding school in Denmark, where her uncle whom she was close to, taught. She went willingly as she could see the downward spiral she was in. It transformed her. It was like pressing a reset button, she aced the school, and has just finished her first year at uni with a first. Our relationship is close and bridges built with her step dad….it took two years. When I wrote on here about her going to boarding school as an option, I was flamed…..however, without a shadow of a doubt, it was right for her.

[MiniTheMinx]

Ask SW about state boarding schools for SEMH/EBD some offer 52 week placements, some just term time. Years ago I know in our area the LA had two homes which were secure homes taking YPs who needed 24hr supervision due to having gained convictions for drugs or similar, or were at risk to self/others.

Its amazing, with all this talk of contextual safeguarding that these SWs aren't running around the streets at midnight! Just making the point that whilst assessment brings to light safeguarding issues outside of the parental home, it seems the SWs themselves are at a complete loss as to how to keep a child safe in this situation.

Not all childrens homes provide worse outcomes. And your primary concern now should be your daughters safety, not your future relationship. Relationships can be fixed. Not all provision makes children more vulnerable. In fact I've never worked in a home where drug use, stealing or absconding issues have not been dealt with. If you go down the route of asking for your child to be accommodated then I would suggest an out of area or rural home and not foster care. Absolutely not foster care.

[GallopingGreen]

OP I have nothing more to add here- but I just wanted to say I wish you and your daughter (and younger ds) very well. This sounds heartbreaking for you. I really hope she comes out the other side of all this soon- for both your sakes. Sending you lots of unmumsnetty hugs.

[MrsPsmalls]

I have to say we tried this for similar reasons. Ds was being exploited by criminals and we couldn't keep him safe. His behaviour was violent unacceptable and terrifying. Soc services refused to offer any help tbh as they could not have provided the sort of care we were giving and said he would be worse off. Which I'm sure was true. He was 15. He is 26 now and is still bolshie and unpredictable, but has just given up his job as a POLICE OFFICER(!) to join officer training in the army. So there is some hope for these terribly difficult dc it seems. No that dh and I will ever recover. And I am not joking - we both have ptsd.

[Belinda500]

I'm really sorry but putting her in care will expose her to abuse, sexual assault and any number of horrific outcomes.
To some extent you have to put your life on hold, reduce working hours if you can, put everything else aside, and focus on your child. She's your daughter. This period will pass and how it turns out will depend on how much you were there.

The essential ingredient in dealing with this situation is being there, that moment, when they open up. What you say goes in, whether you think so or not. Those moments, treat them like precious opportunities to instil self respect and empathy. Don't preach, don't get angry, have some words ready for those moments.

She will be Ok if you are there to instil self respect, empathy for others and a sense that her life could be better. It takes 5 long miles to turn a ship around. If you dump her, she'll have little chance to come good and you will have abandoned her.

[devuskums]

@WitsEnd9 sounds like you are really trying your best. Weird question, but do you and her ever have any fun together? Would it be possible to try and spend an hour a week with her, baking or colouring, or watching something she likes on TV. Just to try and repair your relationship a little?

[NotWanting]

Children and young people do not all have poor out comes because they have been in the care system. Many have poor outcomes because they were abused, neglected, experienced trauma, sufferer with poor mental health and/or were poorly parented - who then ended up in care. Massive difference.

Care also isn't always a bad experience for children and young people. I know many who have said very good things about the care they received.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

NRTFT but telling you what I know of someone who did this.

Her son was almost word for the word the same as your DD. So eventually she said that she wasnt prepared to put the rest of the family at risk and suffering for him. (Anyone saying "buts its your child you must do anything for them" has no idea how awful this can be). And he was an angel for his foster family. Truly. For about 2 months. At 6 months they asked for him to be moved because as soon as he got comfy he was doing the same to them as he had to his mother. He was like a heat seeking missile for the bad crowd and actually became the Alpha in one particularly bad gang, it was what he wanted.

Long story short he had 8 foster families before I lost touch with his mum and he wasnt quite 16 by that point. His sister, same upbringing but didnt get in with the wrong crowd so no issues with her.

People talk about upbringing but also about "friends are the family that you choose" which is fine unless you choose a very dysfunctional "family" and take your values from them.

Her and her daughters life as so much better than they would have been if she had put her all into him (my DD is still in touch with her DD) so sometimes you have to do what is better for the greater good.

[Dogvmarmot]

@TravellingWanabee

I don't know how feasible this is financially, but a friend said he was starting to go off the rails as a teenager and his parents sent him to boarding school and he said it was the best thing ever for him. It really turned him around, got him away from the "friends" he was hanging out with and gave him a different purpose and perspective.

Obviously this might not be possible from a cost point of view, but perhaps trying to find somewhere that you could send her for a while, just to try and break the cycle, and to try and get her to see the detrimental effect her behaviour is having on those around her.

I agree I don't think care is the right place though. I expect it would get worse.

i think there are state boarding schools. that might be the better option.

[tcjotm]

With her being depressed for ages and now this, have they considered bipolar disorder? She might be in a long hypomanic (or manic) episode.

[MinnieJackson]

God, I've just read all your updates. How old is your youngest child?
Sorry if already answered but does she have a father figure at all?
Just wanted to say, I don't think you're a shit mum at all, and you're showing your inner strength so well. I don't have any advice. Maybe get a babysitter for youngest and catch her alone?

[MinnieJackson]

@tcjotm I was thinking similar, but at obviously at 15 you don't want to label. OP, are you scared of your dd? It all seems so manic with no come down.when she's home does she stay in her room, or is she apologetic? X