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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

936 replies

BFrazzled · 02/08/2021 23:05

In the Olympics.

Poor horses. This ridiculous dancing in dressage, who the hell thought of that?

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then Hmm

OP posts:
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11
thelastgoldeneagle · 03/08/2021 09:04

@tabctrlnoanykey

Ha ha, yes I agree OP - as if it’s a sport, totally agree that the Olympic should be about human prowess. This weird horse stuff is totally for the privileged few who can afford all that too. I mean, hasn’t a royal won a few of the comps in the past? Grin
Didn't you see the interview with e the gold-medal-winning equestrian team yesterday? Oliver Townend was at pains to say they were all from a normal background, not privileged, and he hoped this would encourage other riders to aim for the Olympics.
DotBall · 03/08/2021 09:04

MagicSummer In continuation from Polkadotties above, it takes YEARS to train a horse to this level.

I’m about to enter my first dressage competition at Preliminary level (just the second level up from Intro, so right at the bottom of the long dressage journey) on my tank of a gypsy cob who doesn’t look or move like a classical dressage horse. She is an ex-riding schoo,horse, so has been taught basics.

It has taken 18 months of repetition for us to bond, get to know each other and for her to understand what I want when I give those small signals.

The work begins on the ground before on board and the horse learns by a system called pressure-release - as soon as the horse responds to the slight pressure of a leg, hip, bum cheek etc you take the pressure away and give LOTS of praise. And repeat a few times and go do something else to keep them fresh and interested.

My horse goes like a train. She LOVES working and will always want to do more, but I know when to stop. She will never win awards at any high level, but she is happy to do dressage, jump and hack and is always keen to come in from the field and be with me.

It’s fantastic.

Manista · 03/08/2021 09:05

I think I'll have to name change again after this... I've owned horses for 50 years and I now train people and horses (mainly people to be fair, the horses already know this stuff). I can work cattle at speed on my current main horse - without any metal in his mouth. He can spin, turn, carry out all of the lateral moves and elevated stuff you see in dressage - but he does it with a beautiful relaxed natural carriage and I hardly touch his reins. In an arena we do something that some call "cowboy dressage" - again with no bit in his mouth. He's amazing. And yet, if someone wants to compete in dressage there are requirements of tack that they have to use, and it's not allowed to do it without metal in the mouth.

Dressage is supposed to show a "happy athlete". There are very valid questions being raised in some parts of the equestrian world about how far dressage has strayed from that ideal. Whether judges are rewarding the right thing. A lot of horse owners will poo poo this and say that if you don't compete at that level you can't comment. They will say the horses are bred for it, and treated like royalty... Well, I don't compete at that level and would never aspire to win places in an arena where so much stress and force is rewarded. There are some great riders and horses out there... but watch some of the other videos - look at the pressure on the mouth, the expression on the horses, how the rider's legs are moving to constantly engage the spurs. Sometimes people who aren't involved in horses look more closely and are pretty shocked, they have a fresh eye that a lot of equestrians lack. After all, who would treat their dogs like that?
Some of the horses at the Olympics are trained using a method called Rollkur. Go to You Tube and see what that involves. The British team don't use it by the way.
I'll get attacked for this by people who will say I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do. I have trained and rehabbed horses of all shapes sizes and breeds for years. Ex high level dressage horses can be sad individuals - stretched mouths, damaged tongues, highly stressed in anticipation of forceful riding. I take all the crap out of their lives and start again in a simple halter (again, no bit in the mouth).

If you aren't "horsey" then just think about it. A horse can feel a fly land on their body and will twitch it off. They will move away from the touch of fingertips. Their lips are so sensitive that they can carefully pluck the flower off a thistle. Then - watch the videos.
I am NOT saying this is the case for all of them, much as I dislike how they are all ridden, but there are many dressage horses in the Olympics who are not being trained and ridden kindly. Sadly the judges reward the results. It's madness but awareness is growing.

SprayedWithDettol · 03/08/2021 09:05

@BFrazzled Do you eat meat and/or dairy? If you do, give a bit more thought to those animals than the horses at the Olympics.

FYI I’ve been vegan since a child and love the equestrian events and used to ride myself.

Snoringturtle · 03/08/2021 09:05

@ShowOfHands

It is hard to talk to people who know and love horses sometimes, not always but sometimes. I was told by my Tory MP that I didn't understand hunting (he's v pro) because I have the wrong background. A v different conversation of course but it does effectively shut down dissent if you point out superiority of thought as an answer rather than engaging with the question. My eldest went on a school trip to one of our most prestigious horseracing stables and came home upset because they were shown and told about the gold plated care and dd had through natural curiosity asked what happens when they can't race anymore or were injured badly and she got in trouble for it. She was in primary school and there was no edge to her question. She genuinely wondered. I read a thread on here only the other day where a poster said a horse refusing to jump deserved the "skelp" it got due to being a "pig". As a non horse sport lover, that sounds awful as a statement but I actually don't dare ask or challenge the notion of an animal being hit when it won't perform because I've been patronised before when trying to talk to some people about horses. Maybe there's no middle ground. Horse lovers tell me that their horses don't mind being skelped, they like the discipline, they respond well to it, they aren't actually hitting them really and so on and I can't fathom the difference between that and a non-verbal child. I don't think how well any living creature is treated 90% of the time is licence to hit it or destroy it when it won't or can't do what you want any longer. Maybe there's just a natural impasse there and maybe it is want of understanding on my part.
This is so true, a lot are not particularly bright either and will call people who challenge things a townie or uneducated. I struggle with a lot of them and I have horses.
thelastgoldeneagle · 03/08/2021 09:06

I love watching the equestrian events. Just switch off if you don't like them! There's plenty of other stuff to watch.

Polkadotties · 03/08/2021 09:06

@Killahangilion

I agree OP.

Transporting horses half away across the world to take part in some silly riding events is another throwback to the dark ages, same as Fox hunting! It really is time to ditch it.

The Olympics should be reserved for elite athletes only.

The horses at the Olympics are elite athletes! They aren’t your standard run of the mill horse that most of us amateur riders ride.
Ekofisk · 03/08/2021 09:06

The Olympics should be reserved for elite athletes only.

Equestrians competing at National and international level are elite athletes Confused

Toddlerteaplease · 03/08/2021 09:08

Rather that than boxing. Which ought to be banned.

1990s · 03/08/2021 09:09

It’s interesting that ‘horsey people’ are largely deriding people who don’t agree that horses should be travelled to the other side of the world to compete in high heat, high stress environments. When actually it is more the none horsey people, who acting on the instinct, that are probably more correct and show a better understanding for what is good and not good for horses!

You understand that just because you've said the above statement, it doesn't make it true right?

Who do you think is more likely to know what is or isn't stressful or bad for any animal, someone who is an expert (as Olympic trainers, riders etc have to be as part of the job of being at the top of a sport), and the vets that are involved...

or someone who has never really interacted with that animal before?

frostyfingers · 03/08/2021 09:10

@Muminabun - could you point me in the direction of where you found the statistic that the average age of sport horses to be put down in the UK is 7?

I have had horses pretty much all my life. In order to afford it we forego holidays, new cars, don’t go out much, and don’t buy lots of stuff. I’m not complaining or saying “woe is me” but pointing out that just you don’t have to be rich because you have a horse - it’s just a question of what we spend our money on.

I have friends who go on lovely holidays twice a year, buy a new car every two or three years or who have football season tickets - I don’t assume they are rich or toffs because of the way they spend their money.

Snoringturtle · 03/08/2021 09:17

Maybe it depends where you live but you need to be seriously wealthy where I am to own horses. Unless you own lots of land and are married to an equestrian vet.
Teeth, physio, feed, shoes, vaccinations, transport, rugs, supplements, bedding, livery. It costs a fortune and that’s without doing shows or the horse needing surgery etc.

I wish as much care was shown for the thousands of dumped coloured colts or the six month old foals that go to the meat man.

ilovesooty · 03/08/2021 09:18

@DancesWithTortoises

And you sound pretty ignorant about sports you don't like.

What was inaccurate in my description? I know more about football than I want to because of blanket coverage in news programmes. It isn't news it's a game.

I dislike that some sports take on an unmerited importance when they really, really don't matter in the great scheme of things. They are enjoyable pastimes - like dressage.

It's great if people enjoy them, as I did dressage back in the day, but we shouldn't pretend they have any importance.

Describing football as "chasing a ball around" and implying that is the be all and end all is dismissive and ignorant. Just as dismissive and ignorant as the OP.
1990s · 03/08/2021 09:19

@Snoringturtle

Maybe it depends where you live but you need to be seriously wealthy where I am to own horses. Unless you own lots of land and are married to an equestrian vet. Teeth, physio, feed, shoes, vaccinations, transport, rugs, supplements, bedding, livery. It costs a fortune and that’s without doing shows or the horse needing surgery etc.

I wish as much care was shown for the thousands of dumped coloured colts or the six month old foals that go to the meat man.

Again, lots of things being thrown around about "foals going to the meat man", can we have a source for this please?

FrenchFancie · 03/08/2021 09:19

Also if you follow Charlotte dujardin’s Instagram feed you’ll see that her current horse pumpkin is already home, he was shown yesterday having a lovely time in his field at home. Horses are brought back from competition and after they retire many go on to have a long career as stud horses.

I do a tiny bit of dressage - my horse hates it and finds it boring which is why we do so little. I can hear her thinking ‘seriously woman why do we have to do another boring 20m circle? We just did one’. However point her at a jump (even unintentionally!) and her ears prick up, her pace quickens and frankly I just have to hold on and put my trust in her! She’s a cracker and I love her to bits but I swear to god she’s going to leave me behind completely one day. My daughter’s nutcase of a pony does dressage, but really really fast because hes so enthusiastic but won’t jump - we tried a bit but he has a habit of stopping dead at the wrong moment.

Anyway, all this to say that horsey people love their animals and work closely with them, playing to their strengths and working on their weaknesses. Like any sport there are arseholes but on the whole people are kind and good to their animals. I’d be lying if I said you didn’t need a bit of money to fund the sport - we have both of ours on a working livery which reduces the costs considerably but it’s still costly - but we sacrifice a lot of other things to afford this. I’m sure other sports - such as fencing or sailing - are costly to get into but that doesn’t make them less worthy for the olympics. I haven’t a clue what’s going on in BMX for example but I don’t criticise because it’s not like I could jump on a bike and try that!

DancesWithTortoises · 03/08/2021 09:20

I think some posters are jealous. Maybe they didn't get the pony they asked for as children.

Most amateurs look on them as pets in the same way that dog lent do. They just walk them from on top.

Horses are much more fun than dogs for many of us and that's ok.

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 03/08/2021 09:21

Could someone 'horsey' explain just how the rider controls the horse? I know they use their knees in some way but how does that translate into different movements for the horse? Also, does the horse 'learn' the routine and practise it or does the rider rely on instructions every time?

It’s a combination of signals (called aids) from the rider’s legs, seat, weight and hands. Particularly with the leg aids, it’s a further combination of where those leg aids are in relation to the horse (e.g. further back or forward on the horse’s side) and to each other (e.g. left leg further back than the right). The weight comes into play as a horse will naturally move “under” a rider’s weight. If I want to move sideways or create a bend, I will shift my weight slightly in that direction by placing more weight on one seatbone than the other.

Legs and seat (the latter of which works in the sense of “following” the horse’s stride - if I allow my pelvis to swing along with the horse’s movement I’m encouraging forward movement, whereas if I deliberately restrict how much my pelvis follows the horse’s movement I’m restricting it) also create and control energy - I can create energy from the hind legs with my legs (horses being, effectively, rear wheel drive!) and then hold it with my seat to redirect that into a more elevated step, or allow it forward into a lengthened stride. My hands stop the energy flowing out the front, like putting a cap on a toothpaste tube before you squeeze it, but you don’t want too much hand because it creates unnecessary tension and tightness. Too much hand also creates heaviness at their front end, which is not what you want - you want them to hold their weight in their hind legs and core, and not your hands, so they can power forward but retain lightness and relaxation in their overall movement.

The higher the level of training, the more refined the aids are not just in the sense of being hard to see (which is why riders look like they’re not doing anything!) but in terms of a tiny difference in where a leg aid is applied creating a different effect.

As for the dressage tests, the rider will learn them off by heart but the ideal is that the horse does not. You’ll see lettered markers around the arena and movements have to be carried out precisely at those markers. If the horse starts to learn the test they can anticipate and do things early/in the wrong place which will be marked down.

That said, I have occasionally taught my horse a section of a dressage test because it’s a movement that’s tricky or something she finds hard, so them knowing what you’re going to do works to your advantage!

Thank you for asking 🙂

DancesWithTortoises · 03/08/2021 09:22

*dog owners.

BFrazzled · 03/08/2021 09:22

[quote SprayedWithDettol]@BFrazzled Do you eat meat and/or dairy? If you do, give a bit more thought to those animals than the horses at the Olympics.

FYI I’ve been vegan since a child and love the equestrian events and used to ride myself.[/quote]
Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. If you are vegan how can you put up with exploitation of the horses essentially "for fun"? This is completely opposed to philosophy of any vegan person I know.

I am not even vegetarian (although I do eat free range meat), but I dislike exploitation of animals "for fun" so to say.

OP posts:
Ekofisk · 03/08/2021 09:24

I think non sporty people don’t understand how expensive any sport can be at elite level if you don’t have access to funding. Training costs, equipment, travel, accommodation, physio, entry fees etc will set you back many thousands of pounds each year.

BFrazzled · 03/08/2021 09:27

@DancesWithTortoises

I think some posters are jealous. Maybe they didn't get the pony they asked for as children.

Most amateurs look on them as pets in the same way that dog lent do. They just walk them from on top.

Horses are much more fun than dogs for many of us and that's ok.

Look, you live in a bubble.

Like 99,999.... percent of people watching the olympics would never have an idea cross their minds that they could "ask for a pony".

So of course they are jealous in the sense that for them it is completely unattainable, but I think this is a valid reason why this sport isn't popular with many.

OP posts:
Fizbosshoes · 03/08/2021 09:28

Didn't you see the interview with e the gold-medal-winning equestrian team yesterday? Oliver Townend was at pains to say they were all from a normal background, not privileged, and he hoped this would encourage other riders to aim for the Olympics.

It's all relative though. Things like football, hockey, netball (I know that's not an olympic sport)athletics etc are things a lot of people might do at school, (free) and if good enough get in the school team etc. Swimming or gymnastics lessons if blocked booked are usually less than £10 a lesson. There was only one stables locally where I grew up (london suburbia) compared to the several swimming pools or gymnastics venues. Where I am now (a commuter town) there are I think 3 stables but lessons are multiple times the price of being in the athletics club or going to swimming lessons.
A lot of people on this thread have talked about how you can watch fabulous eventing or equestrian stuff free or very cheaply...but that doesnt neccessarily equate with being able to partake cheaply.
Even skateboarding (which I thought was pretty underwhelming at the Olympics) you can do at a local park!

Snoringturtle · 03/08/2021 09:28

Don’t patronise me @1990s or pretend that foals don’t get slaughtered. As I said previously I have my own horses and a yard but you denying or pretending that this is not a common occurrence is just ridiculous.

I am not going to post the recent video which is readily available on google from potters abattoir but what on earth to do think happens to the unwanted foals?

www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/18739681.cruelty-horses-case-wiltshire-abattoir-guilty/

BronwenFrideswide · 03/08/2021 09:31

@garlictwist

Wait, they fly the horses to Japan? Don't they have horses over there? I just assumed the olympics provided the horses.
There is one event where the Olympic host country provide the horses and that is the modern pentathlon.

In the disciplines being referred to here, of course they fly their own/the team horses.

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 03/08/2021 09:33

For those denigrating equestrian sport, I am the first to acknowledge that there have been problems with some - SOME - caring more about success than their horses. But not only is there a huge amount of work having been done on horses being “happy athletes” but there are a significant amount of rules around horse welfare that cover all aspects. And the sanctions for breaching them are (rightly) harsh.

Not only this but there has been a huge shift in the last 10-15 years because of riders like Carl Hester and Charlotte Dujardin, who got results by riding their horses well and correctly, rather than bullying or demanding. For anyone watching the Discovery coverage last week, one of the commentators said how noticeable it is that average scores are higher and that is because horses are more relaxed and the riding more harmonious. Then it becomes a positive cycle because riders know how their horses have got to go in order to get the high scores. You can’t cheat and make it “look good”, it has to be good else the judges can see it.

The vast majority of riders ride because we love our horses, we love the partnership and we love working together with our horses. There might be things people disagree with - from disagreeing about riding horses at all to whether or not a particular type of noseband should be used - but that doesn’t make us cruel.