To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

[BFrazzled]

In the Olympics.

Poor horses. This ridiculous dancing in dressage, who the hell thought of that?

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then

[quote Snoringturtle]Don’t patronise me @1990s or pretend that foals don’t get slaughtered. As I said previously I have my own horses and a yard but you denying or pretending that this is not a common occurrence is just ridiculous.

I am not going to post the recent video which is readily available on google from potters abattoir but what on earth to do think happens to the unwanted foals?

www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/18739681.cruelty-horses-case-wiltshire-abattoir-guilty/[/quote]
I hope you'll take this as it's meant - I didn't mean to patronise you, I apologise if you felt like that.

Thank you for providing some evidence, there is a lot being said on this thread which is very much opinion based without any context or evidence.

Animal cruelty results from any interaction between humans and animals. The whole world hasn't stopped eating meat because some animals are badly treated, and I don't think riding should stop because some animals are badly treated as in your link.

My opinion is that we should try to stop this animal cruelty rather than just stop the human interaction with the animal, as larger it is positive, in the same way I think we should for any other animal.

@Snoringturtle

I don't know much about horses but I do know dogs - and the two worlds do tend to cross over a fair bit. I also know that being involved in a discipline for years does not always make you the absolute best judge of it - at least that's the case with dogs.

It's to do with the stress caused when you must reassess your own behaviour and how it alligns with your moral compass. So, someone who has trained dogs for decades using a balance of punishment and rewards can find it very difficult to accept more modern studies that show the punishment is unnecessary (and sometimes counter productive).

They struggle because to accept that also means they have punished dogs they loved, for no need. This clashes with their personal view of themselves as a dog lover and it is, therefore, hard to stomach. A type of moral dissonance.

For that reason alone, no discipline involving animals should be above the questioning of non-involved people. They offer a perspective that it is very hard to replicate solely within the social group of that discipline. Doesn't make that view right (always) but it is why simply saying "you don't compete so cannot understand" is a dangerous echo chamber to stay in.

Since the average age of a dressage horse is 13 and horses might live 25 - 30 years, you're not going to see horses from the 90s competing now.

I used to compete at an international level many years ago and it took me quite some time to realise what I pretentious wanker I was and the sport is too.

@Ekofisk

I think non sporty people don’t understand how expensive any sport can be at elite level if you don’t have access to funding. Training costs, equipment, travel, accommodation, physio, entry fees etc will set you back many thousands of pounds each year.

It is not about participation in elite sports though, but participation in a certain sport, period.

The popularity of football for example is due to so many people playing it (or more likely, having once played it) on some absolutely basic level. This is also one of the main reasons why tennis for example is so popular to watch although ridiculously expensive to compete in at any serous level.

I think the majority of people never tried any horse riding so don't understand it at all and don't want to watch it.

It is not about participation in elite sports though, but participation in a certain sport, period.

But why? Why pick on one elite sport rather than another? I'm not trying to be goady, I just don't understand.

For that reason alone, no discipline involving animals should be above the questioning of non-involved people.

I completely agree but that questioning shouldn’t start from a point of “You’re wrong, you’re cruel, your sport is ridiculous”.

And yes, equestrian sport is expensive, there’s no getting away from that. But so are many sports when you get above a basic level - how much do top level bicycles cost, for instance?

If you’ve ever ridden a horse you have “done dressage”, just at a very basic level.

The roots of dressage are ancient - as in Ancient Greece! The very first written record of training horses (which is still in print and can be bought) is The Art of Horsemanship, written by Xenophon in 362BC.

Eventing was originally created for cavalry horses (and the original competitions were open to military riders only). The purpose was to demonstrate control (dressage), bravery (cross country) and stamina (showjumping).

Top level riders don’t just pitch up at the big events, they are slogging it out on a week to week basis bringing on different levels of horse from novice 6yos having their very first competition at a little local show to the Grand Prix horse competing for World Championship honours.

The majority of riders you see at these competitions are not “toffs”, they’ve worked bloody hard to get where they are - you don’t just get on a horse and “know” how to ride to a high standard and no amount of money thrown at training for both horse and rider will substitute for actual talent.

@DotBall and @Polkadotties - thanks for explaining. I never realised it was so finely-tuned. Those horses are wonderful! I always wanted to ride but never got around to it - too old to start now though!!

@tabctrlnoanykey

Ha ha, yes I agree OP - as if it’s a sport, totally agree that the Olympic should be about human prowess. This weird horse stuff is totally for the privileged few who can afford all that too. I mean, hasn’t a royal won a few of the comps in the past?

I disagree that's it the privileged few who do this sport. Both of our daughters rode for years and I was brought up in council estates before I got married. We've never lived in a house with more than 3 bedrooms. Paying for riding lessons was a real stretch, but worth every penny.

My eldest would have worked with horses as a job if she wasn't allergic to them. She did some dressage and can see the almost imperceptible things that the dressage riders do to manage their horses. It's an incredible sport and we really enjoyed watching it.

The only sports I don't enjoy are the team sports, but I can at least see the value in them. Why write off a whole category in the Olympics just because you can't or won't understand it.

@a8mint

Its just a way for the toffs to pretend they are athletes

😂

If some people have the opinion that equestrian sports are ridiculous, that's okay. It's a perfectly valid opinion. It doesn't make it a fact that they are ridiculous, or that it's not perfectly legitimate to understand or enjoy them.

Different strokes, and all that. . .

[quote MagicSummer]**@DotBall* and @Polkadotties* - thanks for explaining. I never realised it was so finely-tuned. Those horses are wonderful! I always wanted to ride but never got around to it - too old to start now though!![/quote]
You are never too old. I started at 40 and I know someonewho gad his first ride asa 70th birthday present.

@mbosnz

If some people have the opinion that equestrian sports are ridiculous, that's okay. It's a perfectly valid opinion. It doesn't make it a fact that they are ridiculous, or that it's not perfectly legitimate to understand or enjoy them.

Different strokes, and all that. . .

Exactly. I can't for the life of me understand why people like spa days or time parks. To me they would be a boring waste of money. But I don't go round insulting people for liking those things just because I don't like them.

Theme parks not time

@1990s
Well what happens is that when you look at any sport entirely as an outsider and are not preconditioned to accept it as something normal you are prone to see strange things about it with a fresh eye so to say.

For me the strange thing is that the horse is at least as active a participant as the rider but one: is clearly exploited and two: the rider somehow gets all the credit. Of course it would also be ridiculous to credit the horse with things it didn’t want to do to begin with…

[quote MagicSummer]**@DotBall* and @Polkadotties* - thanks for explaining. I never realised it was so finely-tuned. Those horses are wonderful! I always wanted to ride but never got around to it - too old to start now though!![/quote]
You are never too old. Please please give it a try if you can.

What? You could pick holes in mist sports. Don't bother.

@BFrazzled

Well what happens is that when you look at any sport entirely as an outsider and are not preconditioned to accept it as something normal you are prone to see strange things about it with a fresh eye so to say.

But there was no need to be rude, which your “ridiculous” comment was. Question intelligently, yes. Sling insults, no.

The Olympics is just boring.

Why is sport the be all and end all?

Why not have a sewing Olympics or a car mechanics one. Why does sport rule everything?

@BFrazzled people have addressed the ‘credit’ misconception several times on this thread. Perhaps if you weren’t so busy sneering and took the time to read your own thread, you’d have noticed….?

By the way, I do get it that horse riding has ancient origins and that controlling your horse was vital in the military up to the end of the 19th century. The thing is that we now live in the 21st century and what’s left of this ancient art are rich older people dancing the foaming horse to the sounds of the show must go on. This might have its place at the country fair but not as an Olympic sport.

I'm sure there is some skill in dressage but honestly, is it a sport? It's horse dancing, and tbh it looks pretty stupid.

.........walking horses sideways and having them jump in the air for the amusement of rich people all over the world and Austrians.

What's possibly odd about that?

Horse riding absolutely is expensive at competitive level, but no more so than the costs of competing, training and equipment in many other sports.

I competed as a teenager, and I got up at 4:30 every morning and put in 3 hours of work before school at a local yard mucking out, sweeping up, skipping out fields etc, and the same for 2 hours in the evenings after school, as well as babysitting evenings to fund it. It’s really costly but it is doable.

[quote BFrazzled]@1990s
Well what happens is that when you look at any sport entirely as an outsider and are not preconditioned to accept it as something normal you are prone to see strange things about it with a fresh eye so to say.

For me the strange thing is that the horse is at least as active a participant as the rider but one: is clearly exploited and two: the rider somehow gets all the credit. Of course it would also be ridiculous to credit the horse with things it didn’t want to do to begin with…[/quote]

As others have said, anyone who's taken the time to understand what's involved in the sport gives the horse "credit".

I'm not interested in football, in my opinion it's players are far overpaid, football matches cause violence in various forms etc etc.

I don't really know what else to say other than what others have said - different people like and value different things for different reasons.

Wouldn't it be better to accept this and not dismiss each other so harshly?

This thread has made me really sad.