To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

[BFrazzled]

In the Olympics.

Poor horses. This ridiculous dancing in dressage, who the hell thought of that?

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then

Vienna? Google how they make the horses do that stuff.

I think the oddest thing about this thread is that the naysayers haven't paid any attention to the very knowledgeable replies from people who have first hand experience.

Neighsayers

@sadperson16

Vienna? Google how they make the horses do that stuff.

You know that’s not dressage, right? Nobody is defending that.

@countrygirl99

I think the accusations of thick etc arise because it doesn't matter how much we point out that the but isn't the steering mechanism, your arsenal snd legs are (and not by kicking either) somr posters still think they no better and persist with thinking they know it all. What conclusions would you draw? Either are not capable of understanding or they don't want to understand because it would destroy their cruel,elitist narrative.

Yes!

You don’t steer with the bit and you don’t kick. I don’t know how many times it needs to be said.

How many times does it need to be said that you can tell how a horse is feeling or whether they like something by reading their body language. I even posted some links a couple of pages back.

Horses have preferences and are perfectly capable of communicating them.

@stanlie 😂

..And the bit where there’s apparently no abuse happening with dressage horses. Anywhere.

Literally not one person has said it doesn't happen anywhere. But you're cherry-picking the responses you want to acknowledge, ignoring the ones that actually give some informed insight to practices within equestrianism or answer questions you've asked, and making up strawmen like the comment above when parts of your argument are blown out of the water. You're not posting in good faith here.

Literally not one person has said it doesn't happen anywhere

They have - quite a few commends saying that you can’t make a horse do anything they don’t want to do they must be enjoying it.

They have - quite a few commends saying that you can’t make a horse do anything they don’t want to do they must be enjoying it.

The thing is that's just the simplified version. What it means is you can't make horses do something and consistently perform well at it or be willing. Horses that don't enjoy what they are doing won't keep winning medals, or races or even make suitable riding horses if that's what they hate (few do, usually it's a pain issue such as dental or muscular which can be diagnosed and resolved)

@CarlottaValdez

Literally not one person has said it doesn't happen anywhere

They have - quite a few commends saying that you can’t make a horse do anything they don’t want to do they must be enjoying it.

Well, you can't make a horse do anything it doesn't want to do unless you subscribe to pain and punishment methods. The horse world as with dogs, have moved away from that, and by and large train with methods that aren't reliant on pain and fear - reading your posts it seems that you are insisting that all equestrians use pain and fear as standard - they don't. For many reasons, mainly because they are no longer required to work for us, their 'use' has changed from being a means to an end, and needed for us to survive, to an animal some people like to spend time with and build a bond with - a bond built on pain and fear doesn't last long, there will always be something a horse fears more than you. Horses are by nature cooperative animals, they have to be to live in a herd. When we as humans communicate on their level, they understand and cooperate for the most part - and are healthier, have less problems and live longer when that cooperation is a result of trust rather than fear. As humans we've worked this out for the most part and the basics of training have moved away from pain and fear to communication and trust. If my horse really doesn't want to do something, it's unacceptable to me to beat the living daylights out of him, or pull harshly on his bit to make him - as it would be to most people, including equestrians. Instead I work with him, work on my relationship with him, gain more trust, look at his body language and react accordingly 90% of being around a horse is reading their body language, I don't just assume he doesn't or does like something - I've learned what his body language is like in several different situations and what his physical reaction is in those situations and tie the two together. But, ultimately, if you are saying that because a horse can't speak with words, we have no idea if they're enjoying something - how do you know they aren't?

@VeryLongBeeeep

..And the bit where there’s apparently no abuse happening with dressage horses. Anywhere.

Literally not one person has said it doesn't happen anywhere. But you're cherry-picking the responses you want to acknowledge, ignoring the ones that actually give some informed insight to practices within equestrianism or answer questions you've asked, and making up strawmen like the comment above when parts of your argument are blown out of the water. You're not posting in good faith here.

Yes!

Of course there is abuse and cruelty in equestrianism. Like there is everywhere in life. No one is denying it and no one thinks it’s ok.

My own 2 horses are former rescues. My elderly retiree was removed by the RSPCA from a former owner for horrific neglect.

My daughter’s pony was literally bought off a meat wagon at the end of a sale by a friend. When she’s clipped out, you can see hundreds of scars from the abuse she’d experienced in the past

I’ll be damned if either of them ever experience anything like that again.

Professionally fitted bits, bridles and saddles - meh

You know, the more I read the less I think I know what the bit IS for. If a bit is not for steering and not for stopping, and all control is from the legs and seat, why does a dressage horse need a double bridle?

@Gremlinsateit

You know, the more I read the less I think I know what the bit IS for. If a bit is not for steering and not for stopping, and all control is from the legs and seat, why does a dressage horse need a double bridle?

It’s a refining aid. The driving aids, seat and leg, tell the horse where to go and at what gait. The refining aids say, this fast, with this rhythm, with this bend (which is not the same as “go this way” or steering). It’s also used to communicate a change coming up, like a halt or a downwards transition, through the half halt.

The FEI is opening increasingly large levels of competition to single bridles and snaffle bits because the double doesn’t suit every horse or situation. Nationally you can compete at any level in a plain snaffle, and internationally through 2*.

If you steer by dragging on the bit in a horse's mouth, you're doing it wrong. All you should be doing is gently shifting hands and shoulders (which happens naturally as you turn your head to look where you want to go) to put minimal pressure on one side of the horse's mouth. At the same time as you move your hands, you also move your legs a little, and that along with your shoulder movement shifts your balance in the saddle, and all of these things cue a horse to turn.

So you don't 'steer with the bit' as such, it's just a part of the process. I was riding lead file last week, and turned the horse I was riding up a lane at a right angle to the lane I was on. To the uninitiated eye, I didn't do a damn thing, but she turned, ears pricked, alert and happy.

Somebody who rides seriously may be along to offer further info.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

If you steer by dragging on the bit in a horse's mouth, you're doing it wrong. All you should be doing is gently shifting hands and shoulders (which happens naturally as you turn your head to look where you want to go) to put minimal pressure on one side of the horse's mouth. At the same time as you move your hands, you also move your legs a little, and that along with your shoulder movement shifts your balance in the saddle, and all of these things cue a horse to turn.

So you don't 'steer with the bit' as such, it's just a part of the process. I was riding lead file last week, and turned the horse I was riding up a lane at a right angle to the lane I was on. To the uninitiated eye, I didn't do a damn thing, but she turned, ears pricked, alert and happy.

Somebody who rides seriously may be along to offer further info.

Exactly, the bit is (used and fitted correctly) a method of communication from rider to horse. If your hands are good enough you can feel tension from the horse through the rein, as well as see it and feel it through the body. A tense horse, when ridden tends to start with the mouth and moves through the body - it's easy to see when you know what you're looking for, easy to miss if you don't, dressage judges, especially at Olympic level, could, I would think, see the slightest bit of tension and mark down for it - it's in the riders best interests to train a relaxed horse.

Personally, I don't really agree with double bridles as such, I do agree that in order to use one you need to be soft in the hand and yielding, but I have never really got my head around it being 'better' to essentially have to have the horse in a stronger and chunkier bit(s) the higher you go, to me (no great competition rider) the same results from a snaffle bit would show better training.

But then I also am open to an explanation from someone who has an answer and understand that I don't know everything there is to know about horses and dressage because I've ridden and been around horses for a long time and competed at lower levels in a loose ring, jointed snaffle with a lozenge.

You know, the more I read the less I think I know what the bit IS for. If a bit is not for steering and not for stopping, and all control is from the legs and seat, why does a dressage horse need a double bridle

As a pp said it's all part of the communication. You use gentle squeezes, some barely noticeable to communicate to the horse what you want. A double bridle has more commutation points for even more subtle and more advanced instruction that day to day riding horses don't need as they are just working at a basic level. Same as in cycling you have more/different gear for a competition road bike as you do for cycling to the park and a dancer might have a different standard of shoes at a competitive level than a 4 year old doing a ballet class

And the curb rein of the double bridle is held by the pinky finger the possible pressure is minuscule

I've just been watching the modern pentathlon when a poor German athlete was unable to persuade her horse to participate in the showjumping round. It was really interesting demonstrating how much of a relationship rider and horse need to have.

@badpuma

I've just been watching the modern pentathlon when a poor German athlete was unable to persuade her horse to participate in the showjumping round. It was really interesting demonstrating how much of a relationship rider and horse need to have.

The pentathlon is a huge example of that. I'd never seen it til last week. It was eye opening. I mean some riders were better than others but even the good ones weren't doing great. I didn't see a single clear round

Some of the riding in the pentathlon was dreadful - those poor horses having their mouths hung onto and riders with little balance wobbling all over the place. The horse that the German rider was on was a very good example that you can't make a horse do anything it doesn't want to! There were several more subtle horses doing that too - the number of refusals and horses ploughing through jumps - that wasn't 'a missed stride' it was the horse going 'nope - you can't ride I aint gonna jump'.

For those who were listening to the commentator , when a horse swishes it's tail like those horses were it is NOT evidence of the horse enjoying itself - its evidence that the horse is not happy.

I'm not a fan of having horse riding in the modern pentathlon, I don't think it's fair on the horses to have complete strangers trying to get them round a show jumping course, even though the course is nowhere near 'pure' SJ level. And it annoys me that so many of the competitors look so comparatively novicey in that phase; it's like a gymnast being part of the all-round competition but not bothering to practice balancing on the beam!

@VeryLongBeeeep

I'm not a fan of having horse riding in the modern pentathlon, I don't think it's fair on the horses to have complete strangers trying to get them round a show jumping course, even though the course is nowhere near 'pure' SJ level. And it annoys me that so many of the competitors look so comparatively novicey in that phase; it's like a gymnast being part of the all-round competition but not bothering to practice balancing on the beam!

Just back to say I agree, the pentathlon show jumping is bloody awful!

I thought the same thing re the pentathlon. I was shocked how novice they were for this level of competition. One rider stated they ride 2 times a month while training. That's simply not enough! I've ridden for 35 years but would still need to train, with instruction for a good while to be able to do a course like that justice . You can't just rock up the the Olympics with 2 days a month practice at anything let alone something needing so much skill, strength and balance

I agree too. I've been on this thread backing equestrian events but the standard of riding is really patchy in modern pentathlon. There's no way I'd let a horse of mine be used (not that I have one but YKWIM). Some of the riders are doing what some of the posters have been wrongly accusing the professional riders of doing.

Some of the riders are doing what some of the posters have been wrongly accusing the professional riders of doing.

I think you'll find that most pentathlon competitors are as 'professional' as most dressage riders are when it comes to income, at the Olympic level.