To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

[BFrazzled]

In the Olympics.

Poor horses. This ridiculous dancing in dressage, who the hell thought of that?

There was one winner of the dressage contest who supposedly also won in the nineties. No mention of the horse, guess it was with a different one then

Crap not chap

@Polkadotties

Have a look a how a bit fits in the horses mouth. Firstly it's metal. It's designed to sit on the soft cartilage and under the roof of the mouth. The reason they are designed like this is because the mouth has a lot of nerves here and that is is very painful is the horse doesn't comply.

Horses will often attempt to put their tongue over the bit to stop it pushing in the the roof of the mouth.

If you run your tongue at the back of your own teeth you'll find that soft cartilage. Easier still if you don't have wisdom teeth. Go and get a bit and place it over your tongue and with the metal on the cartilage. Then ask someone even gently to tug on it.

As you can get bridles without bits and you can choose not to use one, you have to ask yourself why as @Nixandwotsit has said why riders continue to use them and spurs. The answer is that it's better for control and easier. It has nothing to do with horse welfare.

@countrygirl99

So I take it you don't use bits or spurs? Which is great if so.

I am very aware of how a bit works thank you, there is no need to be so preachy.
My horse has a bit that fits him, I ride with light sympathetic hands. The bit is one of our methods of communication.
I tired him bitless, he didn’t like it.

If you'd ever ridden horses you'd know how much they enjoy it. You can tell by their body language, their ear positions in particular. If their ears are pricked or kind of flopped sideways, they are keen or relaxed. It's when they're flat back that they're really not enjoying it.

Did you not watch the cross country and see how keen the horses are to run and jump?

The man in the video, Jeff, says that when people use bits for control they are using pain compliance. He says that bits are an advanced tool used for refinement, that you should hardly be able to tell when the rider moves the reins to use them. So most of the time, however wonderful the movement is that you are riding, the reins have slack in them. When the bit comes into play it's a touch on the reins with the little finger (yes, use the little fingers) and release instantly as soon as the horse responds. I know I'm wasting my typing here... but I think many of us in the UK are limited in our view of horsemanship by our previous experience and need to look out for examples of excellence.

@Polkadotties

I am very aware of how a bit works thank you, there is no need to be so preachy. My horse has a bit that fits him, I ride with light sympathetic hands. The bit is one of our methods of communication. I tired him bitless, he didn’t like it.

Yet as the horse can't talk this is all your interpretation.

But if this bit is so great you could wear one too when you're riding the horse. Tightened up with a full face bridle.

@JulesRimetStillGleaming

If you'd ever ridden horses you'd know how much they enjoy it. You can tell by their body language, their ear positions in particular. If their ears are pricked or kind of flopped sideways, they are keen or relaxed. It's when they're flat back that they're really not enjoying it.

Did you not watch the cross country and see how keen the horses are to run and jump?

I think horses bloody love to run and jump. Just not so much carrying some lummox who has put metal in their mouth and spurs in their sides.

Watching a horse run about without a rider or all that kit on them is an absolute delight.

@Thatsjustwhatithink 🤣 I’m sorry but you are just being obtuse now.
My horse does ‘talk’ to me. I read his body language, I read his mood. He might not speak words but we definitely communicate with each other.
If you don’t understand this then there is no point in continuing this discussion.

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Polkadotties

Have a look a how a bit fits in the horses mouth. Firstly it's metal. It's designed to sit on the soft cartilage and under the roof of the mouth. The reason they are designed like this is because the mouth has a lot of nerves here and that is is very painful is the horse doesn't comply.

Horses will often attempt to put their tongue over the bit to stop it pushing in the the roof of the mouth.

If you run your tongue at the back of your own teeth you'll find that soft cartilage. Easier still if you don't have wisdom teeth. Go and get a bit and place it over your tongue and with the metal on the cartilage. Then ask someone even gently to tug on it.

As you can get bridles without bits and you can choose not to use one, you have to ask yourself why as @Nixandwotsit has said why riders continue to use them and spurs. The answer is that it's better for control and easier. It has nothing to do with horse welfare.[/quote]
You're describing only one type of bit - that is used less and less these days. Lots of people now using bits with lozenges or straight bars that do not press in to the horses roof like a standard jointed bit. In all my years of riding and working in yards with 40+ horses I've only ever come across one that put their tongue over the bit. It's not something they generally do. Many horses do not like nose pressure and don't take to bitless.

@Thatsjustwhatithink

@Polkadotties

Interestingly (and one of the reasons I'm not keen on horse eventing/competition) the reason that we can trace bloodlines of horses and understanding their heritage and how/where they were domesticated is because a bit does unique damage to a horse mouth bones and teeth.

You can trace which peoples had horses by looking at the tools/bones for that era and all show damage from the bit.

Please can you find me a link to this research? Having done equine studies, and having 2 vets in the family (one of whom is an equine specialist) I have never heard of this. Please do enlighten me (us).

Every sport is a bit silly if you think about it too much. Look at swimming. It would be simple if the competition was to see the fastest swimmer over X distance but we have;

• different distances
• crawl
• backstroke
• butterfly
• breast stroke
• have I missed any?

My advice is don't think about it too much and only watch was you enjoy.

Why do you keep talking about spurs? I rode for a decade having weekly lessons and probably used spurs two or three times ever and for practicing dressage. It's not common to wear spurs except at the very top level.

@liveforsummer mine loves his lozenge bit, hates a straight bar. I’ve spent so much time and money making sure he is comfortable.

@lizbethb37

Well why would a vet know? It's anthropology.

I'll find you a link but it's pretty standard stuff. If you want to understand a tribe/people look at the tools, metal, bone etc.

Horse bone at the jaw had distinctive scarring on it from metal.

I'll find you a link if you can't see it online

If you look at historical bits you'll see we've come rather a long way, even in the last 20 years never mind from the Middle Ages 😆

Yet as the horse can't talk this is all your interpretation.

Depends how you define 'talk'.

With spoken language? No.
With their voices? Yes.
With their body? Yes
With their facial expressions? Yes
With their ears? Yes
With their general demeanor? Yes

Would you need a horse to shout "Move! I don't want you here!" If it were galloping at you across the field with it's ears pinned to it's head and mouth wide open before you moved? Or would you read the body language and react accordingly?

How do you think vets define what they suspect is wrong with an animal before blood tests etc? The animals general demeanor and reactions outside of the 'norm'.

Bits can be incredibly harsh in the wrong hands, which is why learning to use one properly is vital. But then bit less bridles, which use nose and poll pressure can be very harsh too - which is why learning to use one properly is vital.

In the same way that you can hurt a dog with a collar or harness or halti if you misuse it.

You can’t compare the bits used by tribal people to those used today 😂

If you were to attend any equestrian event in the UK, you would see that they do. They get a rosette on their bridle and a lap of honour. And believe me, they know it means they have won. Then of course there's praise and treats and affection.

Was waiting for the horses in the medal ceremony at the Olympic Showjumping. Oh wait...!

More seriously, am sure you're right that the horses knows they've done something good. Not sure they know they've won-if the 'medal winners' are together after say, cross country, unless they can read their times...

I would like to know what happens to dressage horses once they are no good at prancing around anymore? Are they like the poor racehorses who are just sent off to slaughter? I read recently between 6,000 and 7,000 race horses are killed each year, there’s also a panorama investigation about it. That’s pretty horrific numbers.

@lizbethb37

Type in "the domestication of horses" in to Google. Look for the archeological tab, and it will explain about horse bones/bits/domestication.

There's better info in some of the more detailed studies.

@Hopeisallineed

I would like to know what happens to dressage horses once they are no good at prancing around anymore? Are they like the poor racehorses who are just sent off to slaughter? I read recently between 6,000 and 7,000 race horses are killed each year, there’s also a panorama investigation about it. That’s pretty horrific numbers.

A lot of top horses are sold or given to young riders working up through the levels. These horses are known as ‘school masters’. Some are retired and put out to grass. Some are euthanised. There is nothing wrong with putting an animal down. In fact I know some people who should have their poor horse put down but they don’t. Same applies to people who own dogs, cats etc who keep pumping them full of drugs and treatments rather than letting the animal go in a dignified way.

@Hopeisallineed it depends. Some retire and live out their days with the owners, some move to lower levels and become a schoolmaster for younger or less experienced riders, some will be bred from....
Mine only competed up to advanced medium but basically stopped competing, was being schooled at home and did loads of hacking around the countryside and then died in the field suddenly

Was waiting for the horses in the medal ceremony at the Olympic Showjumping. Oh wait...! wink

Blimey, how many things can a person get wrong in one post??

1. That's the dressage team, not the showjumpers.
2. That's not this year's dressage team, which was only made up of three riders.
3. You can literally see two horses' heads in the background of the photo, waiting for their riders to get back on for the lap of honour.

Here is a photo showing Explosion W in the medal ceremony arena. The pinky-purple ribbon you can see on the right of his shoulder/leg is the rosette awarded to the horse. Obviously the horses can't fit on the podium so they stand behind it (also for safety reasons as during a normal medal ceremony with a much bigger crowd, the noise of the cheering as the medals are awarded can make them spook or dance around a bit), and then the riders get back on and canter round the arena in a lap of honour, showing off the horse as much as themselves.

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@countrygirl99

So I take it you don't use bits or spurs? Which is great if so.[/quote]
I use a bit. I don't use spurs and I don't steer with the bit because I cam ride properly. I only use the bit for pressure in an emergency such as when I needed to evade a knobhead driver recently. I'm sure you'll agree that a few seconds of pressure in the mouth is better than being hit head on by a car driving in excess of the 40mph speed limit.