Page 3 | Encouraging DS to declare his ASD

natureleaves · 2021-08-02T15:16:32+00:00

DS who is 21 is starting a PGCE this September; me, DH and DS all think he likely has ASD but doesn't have a diagnosis of ASD. I know it's not my place to interfere as DS is an adult but should I encourage him to mention his ASD to the uni and school he'll be placed in. Knowing DS he won't mention it and only might do if he started to seriously struggle. Also as DS doesn't have a diagnosis is there anything legally that could happen by declaring that he thinks he has ASD.

Thingsthatgo · 02/08/2021 18:44

Whether he hasn’t a diagnosis or not I’m not sure that adjustments would be made if he finds the classroom environment overwhelming. (I might be wrong in this) but presumably he will need to demonstrate that he can handle some tough teaching situations to pass the course. I did my secondary PGCE 20 years ago, so things might have changed, but I was teaching 6 weeks into the course and some of my classes were crowd control and damage limitation exercises! (Even for their regular teachers).

Soverymuchfruit · 02/08/2021 18:44

I don't know if it would happen, but if DS was having a bad lesson and he couldn't handle it and ended up walking out of the classroom to calm down in the toilet if the school knew he could be autistic they might understand why he's doing it.

If that's a vague possibility, sounds like he should go to his course's disability advisory service as soon as he's able (which is probably now, before the course starts). They'll be able to give much more relevant advice - including on the question of if it makes sense to get an assessment - that you'll find here. As it's perfectly normal to go to them without a formal diagnosis. For many students, talking to them is the first step on that route.

Note that talking to the DAS is confidential and will only be disclosed to this course director/ mentor etc if he agrees to this. So doing this is a separate decision from the action you're suggesting. And they'll be able to advise on whether that would be sensible.

intothewoodss · 02/08/2021 18:44

@natureleaves

I don't know if it would happen, but if DS was having a bad lesson and he couldn't handle it and ended up walking out of the classroom to calm down in the toilet if the school knew he could be autistic they might understand why he's doing it.

You can't really do that as a teacher, and I'm speaking as an autistic teacher here.

Pinkflipflop85 · 02/08/2021 18:47

@natureleaves

I don't know if it would happen, but if DS was having a bad lesson and he couldn't handle it and ended up walking out of the classroom to calm down in the toilet if the school knew he could be autistic they might understand why he's doing it.

He can't do that though, even with an ASD diagnosis.

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 02/08/2021 18:48

There's nothing to declare. You can't declare a disability you don't legally have.

They can't offer him any adjustments for it unless he has been diagnosed.

tintodeverano2 · 02/08/2021 18:49

@stripedbananas

In most Unis they test everyone for things like this including dyslexia, dyspraxia etc

Really? They didn't at mine.

Watapalava · 02/08/2021 18:53

I wouldn’t encourage a formal diagnosis

With so many leaving teaching he may later on life decide on a career which it may hinder him on

There are professions which bar people with any health or learning issue and we exempt from discriminatory rules

budgun · 02/08/2021 18:54

@natureleaves

I don't know if it would happen, but if DS was having a bad lesson and he couldn't handle it and ended up walking out of the classroom to calm down in the toilet if the school knew he could be autistic they might understand why he's doing it.

Classroom?

Original poster

natureleaves · 02/08/2021 18:54

He didn't have any adjustments throughout his three years he was studying his undergrad degree, I highly doubt DS would walk out the classroom. What I do know is when DS had his online interview for the PGCE interview he was so nervous before the interview that after the interview he told me he had to lie down for an hour on his bed as he felt exhausted from the stress leading up to the interview and couldn't make himself a sandwich as he felt over stimulated and worn out.

OP posts:

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 02/08/2021 18:55

Oh my god, you can't self identify as being autistic, it's not a lifestyle choice! That's like saying he self identifies as being deaf because he doesn't always listen.

If he thinks he has autism and needs some concessions and allowances made for him then he needs to look at getting assessed, otherwise he will be treated as though he is neuro-typical.

HedyPrism · 02/08/2021 19:01

@natureleaves

He didn't have any adjustments throughout his three years he was studying his undergrad degree, I highly doubt DS would walk out the classroom. What I do know is when DS had his online interview for the PGCE interview he was so nervous before the interview that after the interview he told me he had to lie down for an hour on his bed as he felt exhausted from the stress leading up to the interview and couldn't make himself a sandwich as he felt over stimulated and worn out.

I think it might be advisable to consider a different career. Teaching comes with a heap of stress and maybe he needs to work on some coping strategies before going into it.

savagebaggagemaster · 02/08/2021 19:02

@Watapalava

I wouldn’t encourage a formal diagnosis

With so many leaving teaching he may later on life decide on a career which it may hinder him on

There are professions which bar people with any health or learning issue and we exempt from discriminatory rules

Do you have any examples of which professions might exclude autistic people?

BlankTimes · 02/08/2021 19:07

There are professions which bar people with any health or learning issue

Which ones, specifically, outside of the armed forces?

The Police welcome neurodiversity www.npaa.org.uk/

gavisconismyfriend · 02/08/2021 19:10

Disability services at the university will arrange an add assessment if he wants one. Can’t make any allowances for him without a diagnosis

RedHelenB · 02/08/2021 19:10

@natureleaves

I don't know if it would happen, but if DS was having a bad lesson and he couldn't handle it and ended up walking out of the classroom to calm down in the toilet if the school knew he could be autistic they might understand why he's doing it.

Oh dear. Do you really think that's a possibility? I'm not sure what reasonable adjustments can be made in that case as schools don't have a surplus of staff.

DeflatedGinDrinker · 02/08/2021 19:17

Did you not think he did as a child?

SionnachRua · 02/08/2021 19:18

But if you doubt he'd walk out of the classroom, why bring that up? If he didn't need adjustments during his degree, what adjustments do you feel he needs now? I'm trying to tease out exactly why you want him to share that he thinks he might have ASD and what benefits doing so would bring him. So far it's as clear as mud to me.

Sadly teaching in England (I presume that's where you are) is incredibly stressful and comes with a very heavy workload. If I were him, I'd be wary.

user16395699 · 02/08/2021 19:19

You can't self-identify as having a diagnosable condition. You cannot self-identify as having autism. It is not an identity.

Teachers can't just stroll out of their classrooms and disappear. Disability isn't a get out of jail free card - it might enable them to understand, but it wouldn't mean it could be allowed to happen.

Reasonable adjustments don't serve as an exemption from meeting the requirements of a role. If there are no adjustments that are both reasonable and enable you to meet the role requirements, then you can still be dismissed or refused employment just like anybody else who can't do the role - it is entirely lawful. There are some roles that are incompatible with certain conditions / disabilities.

Everybody gets stressed and anxious about high pressure situations. Lots of people need downtime and are exhausted after stressful situations. It's what happens after you use up the adrenaline. It's good that he took care of himself afterwards. If his strategies are not sufficient to cope with the pressures of the role and meet requirements then perhaps it is not the right fit for him. Disappointing but no shame in it.

All you can do is make him aware of why it may be useful to be assessed and have discussions about reasonable adjustments, as well as the limits of what the Equality Act offers in terms of "protection" and reasonable adjustments.

There is also a point to be made about self-sabotaging by not being assessed and not having discussions with education providers / employers about support needs or reasonable adjustments. If he has autism.

If you didn't pursue assessment when he was a child, then it is his decision whether he does so now.

DeflatedGinDrinker · 02/08/2021 19:19

CAHMS advised my autistic sons school do movement breaks and they said they don't allow them due to health and safety. Can't wonder out the class whenever they like.

DeflatedGinDrinker · 02/08/2021 19:20

CAMHS even

Abraxan · 02/08/2021 19:22

@stripedbananas

Everyone has to take an online test for it

This isn't the case at all universities at all. Dd is doing a teaching degree and don't have this, neither did all but one of her friends - wide range of universities and courses. The one that did is because she declared her send on her application. I don't think it was for ASD though, but for dyslexia mainly.

Original poster

natureleaves · 02/08/2021 19:22

I've read that some people say they are autistic when they've not been formally diagnosed

OP posts:

TellMeDinosaurFacts · 02/08/2021 19:27

Definitely encourage him to speak to his personal tutor or course leader about it. I had a PGCE student in exactly this position this year. She is now seeking diagnosis formally but even without it we were able to broker conversations and adjustments with her placement school. She tried to do her first placement without this and really struggled with the interpersonal demands of working with school staff/tutors. We went head on with her second placement and it worked out brilliantly- she flourished. She also got support from our Access team about the process of diagnosis (though she ended up pursuing this via her home GP rather than the uni). It's always best to be open/upfront.

Abraxan · 02/08/2021 19:27

@natureleaves

I had wondered if a teacher had a PGCE student where the student thought they had ASD or self-identified as being autistic would they not look out for or be aware if the student started struggling or showed signs of ASD and offer support and not be as harsh on them.

I doubt he'd be given softer criteria in order to get through his course. Obviously no student should be treated too harshly in a professional setting anyway.

The children he eventually teaches will still need the same level of capability and understanding regardless.

user16395699 · 02/08/2021 19:28

Oh dear. Do you really think that's a possibility? I'm not sure what reasonable adjustments can be made in that case as schools don't have a surplus of staff.

Yep.

So turning a blind eye to a staff member who repeatedly abandons their classroom for indefinite periods of time without warning would not be a reasonable adjustment. Because it's not a reasonable way for a school to operate.

Having a second member of staff always shadowing him just in case he abandons his classroom etc etc - budget constraints might make that unreasonable, but if there's a TA perhaps feasible. But if he disappears for 45 mins of a 55 min lesson that's not going to be acceptable regardless of cover on anything other than an exceptional basis, is it?

Reasonable adjustments have to be reasonable. And that's taken on a case by case basis depending on size of employer and needs of employer. Including financial cost.

There are reasonable adjustments that can be made for someone who does have autism (Remploy has resources with examples), I just don't think that being able to abandon your classroom is likely to be one.

And you're only eligible for reasonable adjustments if you can show you meet the definition of disability in the Equality Act. There is no provision for "self-identifying" as disabled.