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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to be surprised that Laurel Hubbard didn't register a lift in the Olympics?

529 replies

Gladiolixoxo · 02/08/2021 14:21

I wonder if all the controversy around Laurel's participation led to her losing her nerve?

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 02/08/2021 22:15

@Helleofabore

I asked for clarification on this

Which is why I know that’s the way the world is turning. I think you might be in for a surprise if this is the first you’ve heard of it.

And I figured you’d miss it (it is a fast moving thread). So I asked again. And you have answered this This is a theory that comes up every year, it’s a discussion that’s been had many, many times before. But with every passing year (as we get closer to the absolute limits of human achievement) it gets more likely.

If this is a theory that is floated every year and you have been following it, you should have a much more thought out solution then what you have posted.

Because, if people who have actually got some experience in this have been discussing it and you have been following it (as you snidely point out that I have not), you’d be posting links that support your position.

Frankly, I don’t care if records are broken. The events celebrate the best female and male for the sport category they are in in the world at that moment. If a record is not broken, so be it. At least it provides something to work towards.

To what end though? How long will we have an Olympics where nobody ever gets a world record? I’m guessing not many.
DepressedDD · 02/08/2021 22:16

A non trans woman?

And there we are….we have idiots reducing women to a subsection of men. Ffs.

herewegogc · 02/08/2021 22:16

Hubbard threw it away like it was a joke. Disgraceful.

Pumperthepumper · 02/08/2021 22:16

@Helleofabore

You seem to be under the impression I work for the Olympic committee. I don’t. I was hoping to have a grown up discussion about the future of the Olympics when we take into account the finite nature of the world record, the increasing number of elite athletes plus the introduction of new and unusual sports.

So, have you actually read any studies on this issue?

You are being ridiculous to suggest I am under any impression that you work for the Olympic committee. If you wanted to have a grown up discussion, supporting your alternative model with something more than very simplistic suggestions completely ignoring published facts and statistics would be the start surely?

Just to be clear, it wasn’t me who started being snide.
ChetChet · 02/08/2021 22:17

I've not heard such utter nonsense in a long while. The ideas on how to rethink and switch up the Olympic categories are LUDICROUS!

titchy · 02/08/2021 22:19

To what end though? How long will we have an Olympics where nobody ever gets a world record? I’m guessing not many.

Why though? The vast majority of gold medalists don't break the world record. The Olympics are still phenomenal to watch.

Kittii · 02/08/2021 22:19

Yup. Just digging a big hole and demonstrating how ridiculous anything except mens/women's categories are.

bunfightinaisle3 · 02/08/2021 22:20

@swimlyn Arf, hilarious 😂

Seriously though, this is a travesty. Women's sport categories are for biological women. Not men playing women, with the biological advantage of being, errrrrrr, male.

Otherwise every other mediocre underperforming male with the advantage of male puberty gets to call himself Jane just to cheat win a medal and satisfy their narcissism. Kind of like the embodiment of male privilege in all other aspects of life eh! Inclusive my arse.

DrSbaitso · 02/08/2021 22:23

The only reason anyone is even suggesting the absurdity of categorising by lung size or oxygen intake (ffs) or anything else is to validate the idea of categorising a man as a woman.

NiceGerbil · 02/08/2021 22:29

'I don’t see why it would have consequences.'

To change the deeply embedded understanding, globally, that there is no difference in strength etc if certain parameters are matching is s massive change. Without the global buy in, the proposed changes to Olympic categories would not be possible. Protests, challenges, media, different opinions between countries it would be a mess. You would have to change the whole mindset.

' It’s not challenging the idea that women are just as good as men, it’s changing the categories of entry for sports to stop the Olympics being record-chasing, and to widen the variety of athletic ability. '

Being the fastest strongest highest etc is the whole point of the Olympics. Winning. Getting gold.

And that's why it's an event that attracts competitors and viewers from around the world.
It's all about competition. Spectacle. Awe.
That's also why countries invest in the sports and athletes (to varying levels). To get their athletes to qualify. To win.

There are loads of things that are more about a range of abilities etc.

What do you find lacking in a global event where the best from all over the place go all out to be THE best?

'Going by your theory, the idea that world records are not infinite, everything can be beaten, surely means women just have to try harder? '

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. A different poster maybe?

'Deserve to be paid less? Deserve to have categories such as ‘football’ and ‘women’s football’, because they’re weaker?''

Women are not weaker. FGS. We are different. Different physiologies. That's why it's separated on sex.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/08/2021 22:31

@Shitfuckcommaetc

I think people sometimes forget that behind all the hoohaa there is a real person. Laurel Hubbard did not make the rules that allow her to compete, she personally should not be blamed for that.

I think all the media (& social media) fuss, and comments must have done a number on her self esteem, and I wouldn't be surprised if mentally she wasn't able to be compete to the best of her abilities.

Laurel wasn't forced to compete at knifepoint. It was totally Laurel's choice to take the place of the young indigenous woman who should have been there.
Pumperthepumper · 02/08/2021 22:31

@titchy

To what end though? How long will we have an Olympics where nobody ever gets a world record? I’m guessing not many.

Why though? The vast majority of gold medalists don't break the world record. The Olympics are still phenomenal to watch.

But an Olympics where absolutely nobody gets a world record for anything? How many of them?
Kittii · 02/08/2021 22:33

Why the obsession with breaking records? That's not the ultimate aim of the Olympics. It's also irrelevant to the issue of whether men should compete in women's sections.

Pumperthepumper · 02/08/2021 22:34

@Kittii

Why the obsession with breaking records? That's not the ultimate aim of the Olympics. It's also irrelevant to the issue of whether men should compete in women's sections.
It’s not the aim of the Olympics - but it’s a theory of what happens when the current set up becomes stale. Which it will when we’re no longer seeing the best of the best because all the records have been broken.
NiceGerbil · 02/08/2021 22:36

@Harrydresdenssidekick

NiceGerbil thank you for pointing out how ideas have consequences. I hadn't taken pumpers ideas to their logical conclusion as you have. I need to think around things more.:(
No no don't make a sad face!

I'm glad you found my posts interesting Smile

Kittii · 02/08/2021 22:39

If all the records have been broken then we will be seeing the best of the best. I don't follow your logic at all.

Kittii · 02/08/2021 22:41

Also, the modern Olympics have been going for over 120 years. Why do you think they are suddenly going to become "stale" whatever that means?

NiceGerbil · 02/08/2021 22:42

@Cam77

Storm in a teacup. Every single women's medal at the Olympics has been won by... a woman. And yet this is "the end of women's sports" etc etc. Get a grip!
You know that how?

I've checked IOC etc and couldn't find an answer as to whether trans competitors had to disclose publicly.

I would put money on no they don't- it's very personal information and there are a host of reasons a trans competitor would not want to go public. Also for some countries I think there could be a general approach not to for s number of reasons.

And it is highly personal info which will draw massive attention so I can totally understand why tbh not wanting to would be preferable.

Do you have some info?

That as well as IOC knowing for testing, the public should know?

If you don't have that particular policy. Do you have other info somehow about which competitors are trans, including those who have not come out to the global media/ audience?

JacquelineCarlyle · 02/08/2021 22:43

@titchy

I suspect it was planned all along. Too much sunlight if their lifts had been registered. This way the path is paved for reasonably competent biological male lifters in the future to compete in women's competitions under the same guidelines.
This is exactly my suspicion Angry
titchy · 02/08/2021 22:43

But an Olympics where absolutely nobody gets a world record for anything? How many of them?

Plenty Confused The Olympics are about watching the very best compete. If a record gets broken it's a great bonus, but absolutely not the reason anyone watches.

I'm guessing you're not a sports fan.....

Pumperthepumper · 02/08/2021 22:43

@Kittii

If all the records have been broken then we will be seeing the best of the best. I don't follow your logic at all.
Ok, now it’s years into the future and anyone who ever broke a world record is dead. The world record for marathon time is 39minutes. You watch someone get a gold medal but they’re not the best of the best because fifty years ago someone ran a marathon in 39 minutes.
LizzieW1969 · 02/08/2021 22:43

And if they don’t menstruate? If they’re underweight and their periods stopped? Less of a woman?

That’s ridiculous. All women have their periods stop eventually, after all (thankfully!).

Pumperthepumper · 02/08/2021 22:44

@Kittii

Also, the modern Olympics have been going for over 120 years. Why do you think they are suddenly going to become "stale" whatever that means?
Because we will eventually reach the limits of human endurance. Look at what they do to athletes now to push them on - how much further can they be pushed?
GrouchyKiwi · 02/08/2021 22:46

@CaveMum

And to counter the “Well Laurel just isn’t good enough to beat women so why are you all complaining?” comments, Laurel’s qualifying lift for the place at the Olympics was 285kg which would have earned the Silver medal today. Laurel, aged 43 and nowhere near peak fitness, was more than capable of winning a medal today.
This is an excellent point that bears repeating.
titchy · 02/08/2021 22:46

Ok, now it’s years into the future and anyone who ever broke a world record is dead. The world record for marathon time is 39minutes. You watch someone get a gold medal but they’re not the best of the best because fifty years ago someone ran a marathon in 39 minutes.

Yes people will still be watching even if they know a record isn't going to be broken. People watch now, in their billions, even when they know (due to course or season best or weather) that a record won't be broken. It's about the completion, watching elite sportsmen and women competing on a world stage.

The Olympics really aren't about world records.