7 year old seems to be constantly tired

[7yowontsleep]

7 year old DD constantly tired but refuses to sleep.

Blood tests have shown nothing unusual.

She is horrible. Refuses to go to holiday club, to the point she will sit and deliberately cough which sounds like a panic attack – I know it’s fake because as soon as we get in the car she’s fine. She goes to holiday club every school holiday so it’s not a new thing for her. I’ve already taken unpaid leave twice this week due to this, and holiday club have said if she does it again they’ll have to remove her place, she’s heard this and said she doesn’t want to go. If I take too much unpaid leave I’ll lose my job.

She won’t play with toys; she won’t go to her swimming lesson. – she did the fake cough thing again so the teacher said she couldn’t go in. We go for a day out and she just whinges she's bored and fed up and wants to go home, and then moans I don't do anything with her. Doesn't matter if she's picked the trip or not.

I am exhausted; I don’t sleep until she does. I shut her in her room but she just shouts to the point my downstairs neighbour complains – housing association who own my flat have said that they take complaints about children over 5 and noise at nighttime. She doesn’t want her tablet or the ps4 or the switch.

She doesn’t want to sleep. Even in my bed. I’ve tried everything; she has a blackout blind up. I’ve followed her natural rhythm, but she won’t sleep, she literally fights it and no matter what starts the day at 5am. GP isn’t concerned because blood tests are normal.

She is supposed to go to bed at 8pm in school times and 8.30pm in holidays. She falls asleep in class at school because she refuses to sleep but nothing I try makes her do anything but fight sleep. GP won’t consider a referral to a sleep consultant unless she’s being violent in the daytime. I can’t afford private so I’m stuck.

I am done with being a parent. All we do now is argue. I hate being a mum. I'm about to reach burnout but no-one cares.

I know I am VUR.

@7yowontsleep

I strongly suspect she has ASD and/or ADHD but no-one agrees, school say she's fine, GP says she's got no signs of it so I can't get a referral to have it investigated.

This was my initial thought, PDA sounds like it also applies.

I have adhd. Permanently tired, right up until I go to bed. Ping, wide awake!

I manage it better but then I'm nearly 50!

Even if you can't get any help, have a look at the ADHD Foundation, Additude magazine, etc. There's lots of strategies, which can be applied regardless of dx. It's meds that is the extra from an ADHD dx, not a lot else...

You might be exhausted but the way you speak about her 'babbling nonsense' and being 'horrible' isn't ok, under any circumstances.

She sounds like a child that is really struggling. Her regulation is out of whack. Rigid structure may benefit her, but it may also threaten her, if she is a child that likes to feel that they are in control of their surroundings.

You don't need school on board initially to investigate ASD. Complete an e consult with your surgery and ask to speak to them about your daughter's development. Look up signs of autism in girls and note down all that apply to your child. The 'babbling nonsense' is called Echolalia btw. So note that down. GP will refer on to paediatrics and you can get the diagnosis ball rolling.

It is hard, but it's not her fault, so please stop thinking the issue originates from her. She is affected by her environment, so it'll be you that has to put all the work in.

Sounds exactly like my son, he's 10 now and recently diagnosed with ADHD.

This may help

for you. This sounds really tough and not normal kid behaviour that can be dealt with by forcing them to go out or whatever. Please don't think I am being rude about your daughter- I promise I'm not! Just that often when a child doesn't want to go out, you can take them and they enjoy it once out, but that's not the case here.

I would definitely see another GP for a second opinion. It sounds like a referral to a peadiatrician would be beneficial.

Apologies if you have thought of this - how is her hearing? It may be worth getting it checked if it hasn't been done for a while, particularly given her delayed speech. If she has difficulty hearing that could be contributing to some of the issues.

Equally, has her eyesight been tested? I wear glasses all the time and if I have to take them off e.g. if going swimming, it can make me feel quite insecure, especially in unfamiliar surroundings. Obviously, as an adult, I can rationalise it but a young child can't.

If you suspect ASD/ADHD, you could try a visual timetable for the day (hand drawn is fine, doesn't have to be fancy). Include everything e.g. getting dressed, eat breakfast, shops for milk, TV time etc. Run through it with her and keep reminding her.

Use 'now and next' or 'first and then' language e.g. 'now we are going to the shop, next we will watch TV' or 'first you can watch tv, then we are going to the shop'. It might help to prepare her for changes which can be an issue for some children.

For the behaviour, a book called 1,2,3 Magic could help.
It can really work for those with things like ADHD or just a defiant NT child.

There's a moshi monster app that is like meditation that could help her sleep. It didn't work for my son but I know a few people who have had success with it.

Does she have a Health Visitor or at 7 is a GP consult/referral the on,y option?

@MrsRockAndRoll

Does she have a Health Visitor or at 7 is a GP consult/referral the on,y option?

She won't have a HV, it goes to the school nurse. And they will be as helpful as a chocolate tampon.

Oh, OP. That sounds really tough. My DD (learning disability, ASD, ADHD) was badly affected by the Covid lockdowns and now won’t do things she would happily do before. With her, it’s primarily a sensory thing - she got used to the world being a lot quieter, and now things are back to relatively normal, it’s just too much - and this makes her anxious and say no to everything, even things she loves, like swimming or soft play.

Coupled with the speech delay and delayed reading, I’d definitely push harder to have ASD investigated, whether through a referral from school or your GP. In the meantime, I second a PP’s suggestion of using lots of visuals, especially a visual timetable, as that can help reduce anxiety and make her feel more in control.

I have seen several gps and they all say she’s not asd so won’t refer us, school insist she’s not either. On that list someone posted she meets 3 or 4 points though.

Everyone says it’s because we experienced DV from ExH (DDs dad) so that’s why she’s the way she is. Apparently we left at a crucial point in her development and basically because we left then she’ll never really catch up. Which I don’t understand.

@7yowontsleep

I have seen several gps and they all say she’s not asd so won’t refer us, school insist she’s not either. On that list someone posted she meets 3 or 4 points though.

Everyone says it’s because we experienced DV from ExH (DDs dad) so that’s why she’s the way she is. Apparently we left at a crucial point in her development and basically because we left then she’ll never really catch up. Which I don’t understand.

A GP isn’t trained or qualified to say either way with regards to ASD.

If she is struggling because of experiencing a past abusive relationship, then I’d consider a (private if necessary) child counsellor who can do play therapy to help her.

*A GP isn’t trained or qualified to say either way with regards to ASD.

If she is struggling because of experiencing a past abusive relationship, then I’d consider a (private if necessary) child counsellor who can do play therapy to help her.*

@BlueSurfer I can't afford private sadly, it's just way beyond my means. I love the NHS but it is so underfunded. In my area the waiting list for CAMHS is 18 months.

I can appreciate how going privately is outside of many people’s means. I would recommend going back to the SENCO at school and having another chat. Good luck.

Get on the waiting list now.
If issues continue at school when she goes back this may push her up

Interesting that you mention exh and abuse. My exh was emotionally and verbally abusive and I feel like that contributed to my son's current anxiety too.

I’m so sorry this sounds really difficult.
My eldest is likely ASD with specific learning difficulties (SpLD) confirmed. Struggles with getting to sleep hugely, especially during lockdowns, when she was getting to sleep at midnight. Anxiety keeps these kids awake. Also interesting you said that she finds reading difficult. Neurodiversity encompasses conditions such as ASD, ADHD by the also dyslexia and dyspraxia can sit alongside too. My child has a mix of different things going on including eyesight issues (squint) too. Came to reading late but will now read before bed to calm herself down and quieten her mind.

I think list out all the factual stuff you’ve said here and how it is affecting her and you and return to GP and ask for referral to paediatrician, also speak to your SENCO at school with the same message. Best of luck xx

Just to add there can be health things alongside neurodiversity I have found through my research, for example hypermobility is more common among people with ASD and this can cause fatigue and other issues too.. good luck xx

This sounds like my friend's child who now has an Aspergers diagnosis.

One word - melatonin

One word - melatonin

Yeah that fixes everything.

@HurryUpAndWait23

One word - melatonin

Yeah that fixes everything.

Well yes it does if you have a non sleeping child. It can help dramatically

Earlier nights, less electronic devices, more fresh air and more one to one attention. It sounds to me like she's trying to get your attention. Have you had a chat with her where you have explained calmly that you need to go to work, but that you will play a game/do something with her when she gets back? Are you remembering to praise her for good behaviour? Do you take the time to read her a story every night to settle her and spend 15 mins of quality time together?

Some overlap with ds who has asd and dd who I suspect does. My suggestions for sleep are

• melatonin
• weighted blanket

Poor girl sounds miserable, and you sound understandably fed up too.

OP GP can prescribe melatonin or you can buy gummies online.

She sounds very anxious and you said lots of this started after lockdown. Perhaps look at some apps like mindful monsters.

As to her reading you could try word hornet book. It's a book you cam use at home and you just work through it so only cost is buying the book. Its helped my child who had sever speech and language issues and was later diagnosed with dyslexia