7 year old seems to be constantly tired

[7yowontsleep]

7 year old DD constantly tired but refuses to sleep.

Blood tests have shown nothing unusual.

She is horrible. Refuses to go to holiday club, to the point she will sit and deliberately cough which sounds like a panic attack – I know it’s fake because as soon as we get in the car she’s fine. She goes to holiday club every school holiday so it’s not a new thing for her. I’ve already taken unpaid leave twice this week due to this, and holiday club have said if she does it again they’ll have to remove her place, she’s heard this and said she doesn’t want to go. If I take too much unpaid leave I’ll lose my job.

She won’t play with toys; she won’t go to her swimming lesson. – she did the fake cough thing again so the teacher said she couldn’t go in. We go for a day out and she just whinges she's bored and fed up and wants to go home, and then moans I don't do anything with her. Doesn't matter if she's picked the trip or not.

I am exhausted; I don’t sleep until she does. I shut her in her room but she just shouts to the point my downstairs neighbour complains – housing association who own my flat have said that they take complaints about children over 5 and noise at nighttime. She doesn’t want her tablet or the ps4 or the switch.

She doesn’t want to sleep. Even in my bed. I’ve tried everything; she has a blackout blind up. I’ve followed her natural rhythm, but she won’t sleep, she literally fights it and no matter what starts the day at 5am. GP isn’t concerned because blood tests are normal.

She is supposed to go to bed at 8pm in school times and 8.30pm in holidays. She falls asleep in class at school because she refuses to sleep but nothing I try makes her do anything but fight sleep. GP won’t consider a referral to a sleep consultant unless she’s being violent in the daytime. I can’t afford private so I’m stuck.

I am done with being a parent. All we do now is argue. I hate being a mum. I'm about to reach burnout but no-one cares.

I know I am VUR.

Agree with previous poster, there's something more here than just increasing activity levels. Suggest keeping a diary for a week detailing what you do and the behaviour it gets from your daughter. Then back to the GP

I’d speak to the GP about referring her. My DD is similar and very anxious with it, and has ASD.

I strongly suspect she has ASD and/or ADHD but no-one agrees, school say she's fine, GP says she's got no signs of it so I can't get a referral to have it investigated.

I'd second the idea of stopping tv well before bed. Substitute audiobooks. They stimulate the same part of the brain as reading.

Ask gp to refer to camhs
Might be anxiety
Needs a psychologist

See another GP, chances are you'll have to keep going back until someone does something. Likewise the school, escalate it, if needs be.

Tablet/PS4/switch at 7 years old, seriously??? Devices are the last thing you need if she won’t sleep 😵‍💫.
Establish a bedtime routine, it won’t be easy but stick with it. At the moment it sounds like she’s very much in control, you need to show her you’re the parent and take that control back. I take it you’re a single parent from your thread, I completely understand how that feels as I am too but you can do this. You need to be strong (easier said than done I know when you’re running on empty) and don’t let her manipulate you. I have 2 DDs and boy it’s tough some times but you’ve got this!

To me she just sounds like a little girl whose world has been turned upside down by COVID and the pandemic.

Her behaviour seems to worsen when she's required to do indoor/group activities - I wonder how much she's picked up from the news, school and social media about the dangers of COVID.

It reads to me like she tantrums because she's too young to say "I'm scared".

My daughter is nearly 7. I understand how utterly strong willed they can be. Mine was the same re sleep - she’s absolutely bloody minded when she wants to be and when she doesn’t want to sleep, there’s absolutely nothing I can do to make her sleep.

I have found the “storey treehouse” books have changed the game. She skips up to her happily to read them and then falls asleep fairly quickly. She’s much happier for it.

For what he’s worth though I think your daughter sounds very anxious. Lockdown had a terrible impact on my 4 year old. She’s ok now but still not her confident wee self.

I’d try another GP or else look at seeing someone privately. If they agree there is something further to look into, your GP should then be able to use that as the basis of a referral. I’d also go back to school and discuss again.

@CheersBoris

Sounds a bit similar in someways to my ds who has just been diagnosed with adhd. Possibly asd, and am going to enquire about dyspraxia too. Obviously loads more ‘symptoms’ with him but the tiredness thing is unusual. It almost seems to be in conflict with his adhd. Like he should be hyperactive, but is too tired to be. As far as I know he sleeps well although sometimes wakes up in the night. But he just seems lethargic a lot even when we haven’t done much. If we go out he’ll enjoy himself but you can see it’s making him exhausted.

Children with ADHD are tired all the time because they can't sleep when they want to and fall asleep when they don't want to. DS 9 has it.

How’s her diet?

We had similar with DD (8yo, strongly suspect ASD, I am autistic and was the same). We overhauled bedtimes because she wasn’t sleeping but was exhausted. We do a similar bedtime but we do “sleep stories”. We sat in with her to start with. We used the New Horizon app initially, then we realised Headspace (mindfulness app I have an account for anyway) do stories so she will chose one of them. For about 3 weeks we stayed in the bedroom until she was asleep/almost asleep. Then once it was an established pattern we were able to leave her listening to them on their own.

Honestly, she is like a different child, more energy, stable moods (used to fly off the handle), seems to be better in school. I would highly recommend it.

@Hesma

Tablet/PS4/switch at 7 years old, seriously??? Devices are the last thing you need if she won’t sleep 😵‍💫. Establish a bedtime routine, it won’t be easy but stick with it. At the moment it sounds like she’s very much in control, you need to show her you’re the parent and take that control back. I take it you’re a single parent from your thread, I completely understand how that feels as I am too but you can do this. You need to be strong (easier said than done I know when you’re running on empty) and don’t let her manipulate you. I have 2 DDs and boy it’s tough some times but you’ve got this!

I bought the tablet in the first lockdown to do schoolwork on, she has some games but probably goes on it for a few hours a week if not less.

The PS4 and Switch are both mine but she has some games like Lego that I let her play. Again she usually has a few hours a few times a week.

She never asks to go on any of them, I offer and at the moment she says no. If I got rid of them she'd probably be fine with it.

Yes single parent, but I don't think she manipulates me, I think there's something going on that's making her behave the way she is and I need to find out what. Like I said I think she could have ASD or ADHD.

@SalmonEile

How’s her diet?

As far as I know fine. Blood tests showed no deficiencies. She eats a good variety, loves fruit, can be picky with vegetables but will eat them.

She never says she's hungry really.

That sounds really hard work. The 'usual' techniques just aren't working for her are they.
I'm no expert but she sounds anxious. My DD has been under CAHMS a couple of times now with anxiety/OCD and she's previously been a poor sleeper too.
Brain gets overactive once she gets into bed. I wonder what your DD is actually thinking about and if all the singing/chatting is her distracting herself.
My DD is older and has finally twigged how to fall asleep! But we do spend quite a lot of time each evening chatting which helps her unwind and offload her thoughts. She's also got a weighted blanket which has been remarkably helpful..I think they help fidgeting kids settle.

It's so easy to say "just force them". Well I have been in similar situations with my 6 year old ds when he will literally refuse to get into/out of the car or leave the house when required. They are too big to carry easily and will most likely cause such a scene yelling and wrestling you that it looks like you are being physically abusive. What are you supposed to do in that situation? With my ds I am pretty sure these moments are triggered by anxiety (starting school this year was a nightmare) and a fight or flight response. I am waiting for a pediatrician appointment to see what can be done to help ds. It is exhausting and demoralising, @7yowontsleep, isn't it?

What was she like before Covid and the lockdowns? I think this is the key.

I am a teacher and the behaviour sounds like it could be related to adhd, asd and anxiety.

I'd also flag up the fact you said she doesn't read longer words or blend well. Could that also be an issue for her? If she's seeing her friends reading lots it might be she's frustrated.

Is her speech ok? Maybe it's frustration at not being able to communicate her feelings or maybe not understanding her feelings.

She sounds like an anxious little girl. I was teaching 5 and 6 year olds during lockdown and the difference in those who were at home and at school was quite pronounced when they all came back together. I'd try the GP again.

I hope some of the above helps and maybe it'll make you think of something else that may be worrying her.

This screams ADHD at me I may obviously be wrong I'm not qualified in any of this, but I have two Sen children and they would or have done this before it's bloody hard work. My son is the most defiant child I know but not to this extent

It may be that you’ve got into a rut and given her far too much power.
I would reduce her choices to be honest. Remove screens and TV, let her be bored. I would speak to holiday club about the fake coughing. I would speak to your dd matter of factly - she’s old enough to understand that coughing = people will think she has covid so needs testing.

I would also try and spend some nice time with her. It doesn’t have to be a set piece, just stay in the room with her, read or whatever - not necessarily with her, just in her presence. If she shows interest, then tell her what you’re doing.

@Disastermagnet27

What was she like before Covid and the lockdowns? I think this is the key.

I am a teacher and the behaviour sounds like it could be related to adhd, asd and anxiety.

I'd also flag up the fact you said she doesn't read longer words or blend well. Could that also be an issue for her? If she's seeing her friends reading lots it might be she's frustrated.

Is her speech ok? Maybe it's frustration at not being able to communicate her feelings or maybe not understanding her feelings.

She sounds like an anxious little girl. I was teaching 5 and 6 year olds during lockdown and the difference in those who were at home and at school was quite pronounced when they all came back together. I'd try the GP again.

I hope some of the above helps and maybe it'll make you think of something else that may be worrying her.

Could that also be an issue for her?

School have flagged it to me but I'd already noticed it. They put her in covid catch up classes and she made some progress but then it stopped because the TA doing it had to self isolate and no books came home in the last 2 weeks of term. I do try and get her to practice but she finds it frustrating and school have told me not to force her as we could put her off reading for life.

Is her speech ok?

Her speech is and always has been delayed. She didn't say a single word until she was 3 and still babbled a lot of nonsense when she started school. She is mostly understandable now but if she's upset or tired or ill her speech goes and you can't understand anything.

What was she like before Covid and the lockdowns?

She was mostly happy, didn't sleep the same way her friends did but we'd get 6-7 hours a night no problem and I can cope on that. It wasn't until Lockdown 3 it became a big problem. She went to bed slightly later while we did home school say 9pm but she'd sleep until 6 or 7am so I just let her get on with it. She now won't sleep at all.

I agree there;s something. Whether it's ASD/ADHD or just general anxiety I don't know.

My 7 year old is also like this and has asd. Asd children can find sleeping very hard as their bodies don't always produce sleep hormones at the right time- just limiting screens etc is not always the answer.

I mean not always enough - my son can exercise all day and still not be able to sleep.

@7yowontsleep
My heart goes out to you I have a 5 year old who's sleeping is a nightmare this will be me in 2 years!!

I have got some support from my health visiting team - they spoke to dd on her own and tried to establish night time issues it's night terrors and the fatigue has a knock on effect in the day

I sit with her until she goes to sleep now we chat and have milk and biscuits together like your bedtime routine but knowing I'm there in the room does help

Sounds hard going. Can you take the stress out of bedtime and make it a bit transactional? Make bedtime an hour (or even 2) later but on the condition that she comes on one outing per day of your choice with no fuss. Make it just a ten min walk to start with so you aren't setting her up to fail. Find some audio books that she could listen to at bedtime or at times when she's just sitting around.