To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

[Belle82]

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this.

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

Sonarl

The times are here. I am not sure if that is local time though.

olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/en/results/weightlifting/olympic-schedule-and-results-date=2021-08-02.htm

What was the logic behind only excluding trans athletes from certain distances in athletics?

[quote Kalvinette]19:50 Tokyo time on 2nd August
olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/en/results/weightlifting/result-women-s--plus-87kg-fnl-a00100-.htm[/quote]
Thankyou Kalvinette, where else should we be protesting this apart from in twitter?

This whole situation did getting so crazy that it sometimes feels like there is a sinister undertone to the militant imposition of transgender agenda. Something is going very very wrong. When a woman is raped, men have no difficulty in identifying the subject as a woman. When a woman is kept from an education, maternity rights, again no difficulty in identifying the gender. Everytime a woman gets a raw deal and something is taken from her, she is easily distinguishable - no debate. But when it comes to protecting and re-instating or retaining a woman’s rights, there is all of a sudden so much debate about ‘what is the woman’. Insulting. Everyone knows what a woman is, the only people having this debate are simply exercising their hidden misogyny and have an agenda. Don’t hide behind the progressive narrative, admit it, you have agenda.

So LH is competing at 19.50 Tokyo time this Monday 2nd August which is 11.50am this Monday here right?

They only gathered evidence that it would be unfair at those distances. It is unfair at all distances but they didn't gather evidence for others.

People’s with disorders of sexual development are not trans - at least they maybe but it’s completely separate to having DSD

That was replying to OneTC but quotes never work for me!

And yes that rule was more about males with DSD (who can appear female until puberty due to lack of external genitalia) than about trans.

Still about males in women's sports though.

Please let not forget that LH father is a wealthy NZ politician. Just saying.

@tttigress

Personally I think it's great she is competing.

Why?
Because when she wins, it will show the insanity of the situation to the whole world, and people might start thinking about doing something to change it!

I'm not sure. I saw a lot of cheering on twitter and q lot of positive media coverage (particularly looking at you, Guardian) when it was announced that Hubbard was going to Tokyo. I suspect if Hubbard wins, they'll cheer further. I think that if people can't already see what a travesty it is, they're not going to. The only thing we can hope, is that a Hubbard win will make serious headlines and people who weren't aware will see it and think wtf

Does anyone know what New Zealand's athletes receive for a medal, if anything?

For some competitors, particularly from the US, it is extremely lucrative. Other nations pay half a million dollars for a gold. I do know that GB athletes get nothing. Can't find out anything about NZ.

You may want to think about how lucrative it is for the infrastructure around the athletes.

Olympic committees receive government funding, and in many places including the UK that funding is coupled to medal success.

There would certainly be strong incentives for olympic committees to pull in all talent available for women's sports - including both sexes - to maintain/increase their funding flow.

You certainly saw how coaches in African nations managed a quite effective scouting search for relatively rare 5-ARD athletes like Semenya. Searching for normal biological males to participate will be a lot easier.

@Jocasta2018

Is it my imagination or does LH have a beer gut?

Maybe.

But LH definitely has a penis. Amazing what those tighty costumes how.

Like, a penis. Apparently a female penis.

*show

Never thought of it like that, @NecessaryScene. It's even more unpleasant and cynical than I thought.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.

Absolutely right @Belle82

But somehow standing up for the rights of 51% of the population when their rights and lives are trampled on by 0.1% of the population is apparently transphobic. Apparently even the definition of a woman as “adult human female” is transphobic.

People really need to wake up to what’s going on, so thanks for posting this in AIBU. You won’t be trashed by me.

@Kittii

I still haven't come across a single, rational explanation for how this is fair. Just false cries of bigot and transphobe.

I also agree that this should stay in AIBU. I think the poll result should illustrate to Mumsnet HQ that these issues are for all women to see and participate in, and should not be hived off to a hidden board.

I think the man from the IoC admitted that it wasn't fair, recently.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4310207-IOC-admits-trans-guidelines-not-fit-for-purpose

'There is some research, but it depends on whether you are coming from the view of inclusion as the first priority or absolute fairness to the nth degree being the priority,” he said'

LH shouldn’t be competing in the women’s category and the Olympics aren’t even consistent with their decisions around trans people.
There is an openly trans person playing football for the Canadian team, except they are biologically female so on the women’s team.

Everytime I read the comment from Richard Budgett I get the rage. It’s sport you absolute twat!! Of course fairness is the priority!! He competed in the 1984 Olympics at rowing - would it have been fair to make his boat heavier than the crews who were slower to make it fairer?? I mean ffs

This is how wonen lose out 2 fold El

They not only have to compete against males but also females pn testosterone which on any other athlete would be considered doping.

"There is some research, but it depends on whether you are coming from the view of inclusion as the first priority or absolute fairness to the nth degree being the priority,”

Completely braindead.

ElCaMum

Part of the problem is that the trans definition is now so broad it is almost meaningless.

San Francisco, for instance recognises, 102 different genders.

There is some research, but it depends on whether you are coming from the view of inclusion as the first priority or absolute fairness to the nth degree being the priority,” he said'

You know, that's exactly what I recall the debate about Pistorius and his blades sounding like. Not.

@ElCaMum

LH shouldn’t be competing in the women’s category and the Olympics aren’t even consistent with their decisions around trans people. There is an openly trans person playing football for the Canadian team, except they are biologically female so on the women’s team.

I think that person ('Quinn', all forenames discarded and anyone who uses them gets told off) identifies as non-binary. But obviously not NB enough to forgo playing for a woman's team, naturally. I'm surprised that they haven't demanded that the entire category of women's sport is renamed, to help them feel more 'comfortable.'

NecessaryScene

I think that the main difference is that Pitorius' advantage was taken as scientific and not based on feelz.