Dressage

[BathshebaKnickerStickers]

Now, I’ve never done dressage. My knowledge of it comes from being a very horsey girls and reading all those pony books.

BUT dressage hasn’t always been dancing to music has it…? It was always just “collected trot from H to M” type of thing (and pretty dull but very technical)…

I’m watching it on BBC1 and the horse was prancing around to a medley of Phil Collins songs…!!!

AIBU to think that dressage didn’t used to be like that…

@BathshebaKnickerStickers

Ah see I hate dog dancing too.

Why? The dogs always look so happy. Their tail goes like the clappers and you can literally see the excitement

[quote SW1amp]@CaptainThe95thRifles

Which bits do you find ‘biomechanically weird’?[/quote]
Excessive shoulder movement/ leg movers, mismatched diagonals in trot, piaffe where the weight is clearly not taken correctly behind and excessive BTV work. I'm aware a lot of this is subjective and people who are very pro competition dressage don't see a problem with some of these things. My background is in biomechanics and classical training. Each to their own.

mismatched diagonals in trot,

What do you mean?

Excessive shoulder movement??

What do you think of show jumping?!

My daughter was taught to ride by a classical horsewoman. She loved the dressage particularly Carl hester. I think UK dressage is very welfare oriented

My friend used to compete in dressage.

It started as training for cavalry horses. If you look closely some of the move are designed to manoeuvre a horse in a battle situation. The rider controls the horse with very slight leg movements. Again learnt so that no one else can see what command they are giving the horse - useful in battle.

I think the music elements came from the horse learning to move in response to drum beats and trumpets, just like the rest of the troops.

Is it cruel ...? These horses are VERY well cared for. If they didn't do their jobs then no one would win medals. They have the best food and stabling possible. Horses are clever animals as well, it's a nice mental work out for them if nothing else.

I adore dressage and it was my favourite horse riding discipline as a very horsey youngster (until tempted away by men, music and wine). Dressage is a symbiotic demonstration of respect between horse and rider, working together precisely to execute and demonstrate certain and specific movements. Some horse love galloping and jumping, others excel at and enjoy dressage (a bit like humans)

There’s nothing cruel about it? If horse and rider are both working in unison to create the end result then what’s the issue?! They’re not whipped as in racing; it requires a strong bond between rider and horse both working together. Horses, like most animals, can enjoy music … Phil Collins or not! For instance, dogs like classical music and specifically (ironically) have been shown to react well to Bach.

It’s no more cruel than agility training a dog; it’s stimulating intellectually for the animal. Anyone who’s ridden a dressage horse knows this.

I dislike seeing horses obviously uncomfortable, I'd prefer to see dressage performed without crank nosebands and a simple snaffle bit rather than a double and the rider not requiring spurs. I know there will be responses of these things being needed for 'refinement', but I'm happier seeing a well schooled happy horse, that doesn't have the incredible strains some of the dressage movements ask for. Plus I hate seeing warmbloods with tiny feet that nearly always cause problems down the line.
Then it leads on to novice riders trying to emulate dressage by bypassing the hours of schooling needed, whacking draw reins on the horse and forcing an outline.😩

Should tell my daughters pony it's wrong. She automatically does dressage moves when riding. She also loves jumping and will jump without rider or lead rope in the field happily

It’s freestyle so music is normal (and expected). If you watch the dressage section of eventing, it’s not to music.

I think the modern British (Carl Hester et al) seems fairly welfare orientated but its not the same world wide. Most countries and dressage riders thought he was mad insisting on daily turnout etc - well until his horses started winning loads... I think there is still an over emphasis on short cuts using training aids in some sectors and I hate seeing all those really overbent horses competing - IMO they ought to be completely marked down.

I don’t think whether it is to music is relevant from an ethical perspective. Some horses definitely seem to enjoy it. YANBU to not like it though OP. Each to their own.

Can anyone remember what the mounted police/military who dance to music are called? I remember watching them at HotYS or Olympia back in the day when they did Tina Turner’s “Simply The Best” and want to find a YouTube video, but all I get is videos of Milton showjumping (those were the days!).

@Soubriquet

But why do you think it’s cruel?

I mean, if the horse didn’t want to do it, they probably wouldn’t

I love watching that sort of thing as its so talented. I love watching dog dancing too. Very clever

google "rollkur"....then see if you think its cruel. Not all riders use cruel methods but many do.

@Bryonyshcmyony

mismatched diagonals in trot,

What do you mean?

Well, if you have to ask that, I'm guessing you're not well versed in the classical vs competitive debate. There are plenty of books, articles, even graphics and photos demonstrating the leg mover issue where the diagonal pairs don't move with matched angles. Whether people think that's concerning or not is up to them.

I've trained plenty of horses to reasonable levels myself, but I don't like how some of these horses are bred for excessive movement, and I don't like how some of them are trained either. As I say, each to their own.

I just don't get it at all. Am watching it now and just feel like the horses must be like 'what the fuck am i doing this for'?!

@DoylyCarte

I adore dressage and it was my favourite horse riding discipline as a very horsey youngster (until tempted away by men, music and wine). Dressage is a symbiotic demonstration of respect between horse and rider, working together precisely to execute and demonstrate certain and specific movements. Some horse love galloping and jumping, others excel at and enjoy dressage (a bit like humans)

There’s nothing cruel about it? If horse and rider are both working in unison to create the end result then what’s the issue?! They’re not whipped as in racing; it requires a strong bond between rider and horse both working together. Horses, like most animals, can enjoy music … Phil Collins or not! For instance, dogs like classical music and specifically (ironically) have been shown to react well to Bach.

It’s no more cruel than agility training a dog; it’s stimulating intellectually for the animal. Anyone who’s ridden a dressage horse knows this.

I used to love trying dressage as a very bad adult novice rider and yes the schoolmaster horses I rode on were not mistreated and put up with no nonsense from idiots like me.....but as I said, google "rollkur" There are other ways of abusing a horse than with a whip.

[quote BathshebaKnickerStickers]@SmokeyDevil

I guess that I feel there is more of a circus element to it rather than it being a very technical discipline of incredible riding and control[/quote]
You clearly know nothing of dressage or riding!

google "rollkur"....then see if you think its cruel. Not all riders use cruel methods but many do

I doubt anyone in the UK uses rolkur. It's very frowned on.

I mean, they use bits made of barbed wire in some countries but that doesn't make UK riders cruel.

Plenty of the nations currently represented at the Olympics do have a history of rollkur use in training systems, though. It's not just a British event, after all.

I would say that rollkur is, at least officially, banned in competitive dressage, and anyone using rollkur at an event risks repercussions from the FEI. Obviously that doesn't mean people aren't using it at home, though I doubt the UK team do.

google "rollkur"....then see if you think its cruel. Not all riders use cruel methods but many do

Rollkur has been widely condemned for decades

If anyone is seen doing rollkur in a warmup ring, they are dismissed from the competition, there has been secret filming of yards and trainers doing it which discredits them

It’s ridiculous to dismiss an entire sport because of bad practices which were never widespread and have been almost entirely phased out for ages

If you are genuinely involved in horses in the UK currently you would know about rolkur and the outrage against it here.

Has CD gone yet

I thought dressage was often to music. I'm not keen on dressage, it looks really unnatural to me when they prance sideways etc. Much worse and horse related that I recently read on the BBC though was what happens to racing horses, thousands sent off to slaughter and then being killed cruelly in one of the biggest abattoirs in the uk, many of them young thoroughbreds from Ireland. I think horses in dressage and the Olympics will be treated much better than those for racing which are just seen as a money making tool and discarded when they're not up to it or are no longer able.

i didn't say that rollkur was currently in use in the UK...are we not discussing the international Olympics?

It makes you uncomfortable? So don’t watch it. Mine likes to do pirouettes inhand, accidentally, I haven’t taught him it, but going up is his default when spooking.