To ask how you'd deal with DD and DS?

[fijnere]

Yesterday, DS15 and DD12 were fighting. I was at work so I didn't witness it but DS told me that she took his phone and was reading messaging between him and his girlfriend and he told her to give his phone back but DD refused. DD is denying that this happened and said that DS just went into her room and grabbed her wrist (there was a red mark on her wrist), DS admitted that he did grab her wrist but only because she wouldn't give him his phone and it was annoying him.

How would you deal with this?

Does DS have form for just attacking DD unprovoked? If not, DS's version of the story sounds more plausible.

Are they home alone a lot? Maybe DD needs to be in a summer camp type thing while you work.

I'll probably be no help and I'm well aware my own experiences are colouring my reply but however annoying DD is, DS needs to know he cannot lay his hands on her. My younger brother was very violent (and much bigger than me even at 13), broke my nose by kicking me in the face, punched me multiple times, was a nightmare to live with and we had to walk on eggshells around him constantly.

Obviously this is a world away from what happened in your house and your son might be a perfectly decent person pushed to the limit by his annoying little sister but I would be mindful of things escalating and getting out of control. Were they home alone while you were at work? If they can't get along together then you might have to find childcare for your DD.

I don't have teens yet and as I say, my comment is based purely on my own experiences but hopefully a seasoned parent of teens will be along with better advice. I do feel for you, it must be rubbish being in the middle of it.

Well, I know I’d come down a fuck of a lot harder on a 15yo physically assaulting a 12yo so badly that even after the time delay for you to get home from work, there was still a bark in her.
Your son is a violent arsehole.

I wouldn’t be impressed with the phone stealing and message reading… but does the phone not have a lock on it? How would that actually have happened?

You know your 12yo - would she do this, and would she lie? (I know mine would crumble after looking obviously guilty)

You have no proof for the phone stealing, you have all the proof you need for the assault. So I’d punish the 15yo, and if that’s unfair because she got away with it - well, even more reason for him to learn not to assault his sister 🤷🏻‍♀️

Teach your 15 year old not to put his hands on anyone.

I would sit them both down together. I'd start by saying that you didn't witness what happened, and as their accounts are do different, you can't take sides. I'd then firmly make it clear to both that they have no right to take each others possessions without permission, and that neither of them has the right to lay hands on each other.

It's so hard when you have to work, and teenagers have to begin to have to resolve their own squabbles. I've had to be extremely firm about respecting each others space and possessions, and even firmer on no physical fighting.

Sit them down and ask for the truth.

If they can't agree on a version of events then you'll take the WiFi box to work.

He needs to understand that he is now to big and old to EVER assault (ideally anyone but especially) a girl or woman. The power dynamic means it's completely and utterly unacceptable. I'd come down very hard on him.

Then a separate issue of invading DSs privacy (which is pretty contentious when you're 15). Your DD needs a serious punishment for that.

Both would be punished for very different reasons.

@Hercisback

Sit them down and ask for the truth.

If they can't agree on a version of events then you'll take the WiFi box to work.

Yes this

If they can't interact unsupervised then they need a babysitter. That should focus them.

She stole his phone, he tried to grab it back. I would do nothing. Unless it was a regular thing for one to hurt the other.

My lot are constantly arguing about something or other, he's got my phone, she's sitting in my seat, he's got the last packet of cheese and onion crisps.
If I'm there I'll tell them to stop but mostly I let them sort it out for themselves. I certainly wouldn't go back over something I hadn't seen happen. That just opens me up to hours of he said she said and that is never fun.
Unless of course you get the feeling it was more serious. I would just say to do not to take his phone and read it, that is a real invasion of privacy, say to ds he can't hurt her. But what should he do, just sit there and let her read all his messages on his phone? This is why I wouldn't get involved if I hadn't been there, they will both just try to persuade you they're in the right.

I’m with @Imcatmum. They both need punishing for different reasons

When my can’t agree I don’t let them watch tv until I know the truth. The truth comes out fast then.

@Cocomarine

Well, I know I’d come down a fuck of a lot harder on a 15yo physically assaulting a 12yo so badly that even after the time delay for you to get home from work, there was still a bark in her. Your son is a violent arsehole.

I wouldn’t be impressed with the phone stealing and message reading… but does the phone not have a lock on it? How would that actually have happened?

You know your 12yo - would she do this, and would she lie? (I know mine would crumble after looking obviously guilty)

You have no proof for the phone stealing, you have all the proof you need for the assault. So I’d punish the 15yo, and if that’s unfair because she got away with it - well, even more reason for him to learn not to assault his sister 🤷🏻‍♀️

Wow, that's a bit harsh. I can fully understand a 15 year old becoming hands on if he's been pushed to it by an annoying younger sibling. I know I used to push my older brother to the limit sometimes and expected to take a whack for it when I went too far.

Only you know your children and hopefully know which you think is the truth. You need to speak to them both. No it's not ok for your son to grab his sister but also if she was holding onto his phone and not giving it back, reading his personal messages what else was he supposed to do? Your daughter needs to understand that it's not ok to be taking his possessions and certainly not ok to be reading his messages. As previous posters have said if they cannot be left together then you need to find childcare for the 12 year old. I think it is unfair on your son to be responsible for a younger sibling if she is not going to behave.

Froends had to employ a 'baby'sitter for their two right up until the older one went off to university.
Boy and girl, two years between them, and they would niggle and wind one another up, then physically fight. Could not be trusted to be left alone together.
You weren't there, and don't want to get trapped into the hesaidshesaid arguments, so draw a clear line. No winding each othr up. No physical aggression. Or a babysitter.

Unless your son has form for being physical towards his sister, it seems very unlikely to me that he would go into her room, unprovoked, and grab her wrist?

To me, his side of this story sounds far more plausible and it sounds like DD is lying.

My sister was younger than me and also had form for lying about all manner of things and would constantly take other people's stuff and then claim she 'didn't know', or 'thought it was hers', or 'well, it was in my room'.

To be honest it caused a huge amount of resentment and I hated that I had to stay home with her while our parents worked.

Is there anywhere else your daughter could be while you work? Summer camp/grandparent/friend etc? It doesn't sound like her being home with DS is working.
If none of the above are options,obviously dependent on what you do, can she go to work with you or can you wfh during the hols?

I would not be happy to leave a 12 year old in this position. I know younger siblings are annoying, but at his age physical assault of a younger, more vulnerable person alone without an adult near is concerning.

Can your DD stay with someone else?

I think I would deal with them separately, not sit them down together. Tell dd that taking his phone was wrong, reading his messages was embarrassing for him, give her a suitable punishment. Tell ds that using physical force against anyone is wrong and he must never do it. As he is older, explain your concerns about leaving them alone if he is going to get wound up by his sister's bad behaviour (understandable) but retaliates by hurting her. Then punishment for ds.

@PumpkinPie2016

Unless your son has form for being physical towards his sister, it seems very unlikely to me that he would go into her room, unprovoked, and grab her wrist?

To me, his side of this story sounds far more plausible and it sounds like DD is lying.

My sister was younger than me and also had form for lying about all manner of things and would constantly take other people's stuff and then claim she 'didn't know', or 'thought it was hers', or 'well, it was in my room'.

To be honest it caused a huge amount of resentment and I hated that I had to stay home with her while our parents worked.

Is there anywhere else your daughter could be while you work? Summer camp/grandparent/friend etc? It doesn't sound like her being home with DS is working.
If none of the above are options,obviously dependent on what you do, can she go to work with you or can you wfh during the hols?

Completely get this as my younger sister was the same. I worked and paid for my own things and should would take them and my parents would let her get on with it. I also found out if was paying my board than her and her live in boyfriend combined! Caused massive resentment. However, I would say OP's situation is different as a 15 year old boy is a lot bigger and stronger (and will continue to be) than a 12 year old girl no matter how annoying she is and crossing the line into physical altercations changes things for me.

I am inclined to believe DS's version of events. But that doesn't excuse the fact that he hurt her badly enough that it left a significant mark, hours later.

He should have already learnt that he is bigger and stronger than her and that therefore he needs to be more careful, no matter what the provocation. This is a very firm line in the sand for me. DS is only 10 but he already knows that he is bigger and stronger than his DD and, in some ways, me, and that therefore he cannot ever use force on us.

*she would

I agree that DS sounds more plausible in terms of what happened. Presumably he grabbed her wrist as she was holding the phone in order to try and retrieve it.

They both need punishing, her because she shouldn't have taken his phone, him for grabbing her wrist.

But let's not go overboard here and make him into an evil entity, he grabbed her wrist to retrieve his belongings which she took, it's a perfectly normal reaction between siblings. You just need to talk to him and reiterate how serious it is to grab another person ever,

Don't go down the well trodden route of blaming DS because he the oldest. Sounds like they were both at fault. And yes, I'd definitely threaten with childcare if they are unable to behave and be trusted.

He shouldn't have grabbed her but what do you think he should have done instead. If someone I wasn't related to had my phone like that eg in a pub, I'd have grabbed their wrist to get it back or kicked their shins or whatever I needed to do.

Both need punishing. The sitting down and the WiFi idea is great whichever poster suggested that!

Dd needs to respect DS property and privacy, but DS needs to learn physical harm, accident or not is not acceptable.

Some OTT replies calling DS a violent arsehole 🙄 If this was reversed DD would be justified in grabbing the bad guy as she was being bullied blah blah
Your DD sounds very rude and entitled and I’d be punishing her and warning DS not to grab her again.

They clearly can't be trusted to be in the house together without fighting so they need to be signed up for clubs every day or have a babysitter. I'd do a mixture of both until they grow the fuck up and I'd tell them that its because they're not mature enough to be left alone together. Mine used to be an utter nightmare....always, always fighting. Then it suddenly stopped over night and I have no problem at all with them being home alone. Hopefully there's light around the corner but until then, they need supervising.