To ask how you'd deal with DD and DS?

[fijnere]

Yesterday, DS15 and DD12 were fighting. I was at work so I didn't witness it but DS told me that she took his phone and was reading messaging between him and his girlfriend and he told her to give his phone back but DD refused. DD is denying that this happened and said that DS just went into her room and grabbed her wrist (there was a red mark on her wrist), DS admitted that he did grab her wrist but only because she wouldn't give him his phone and it was annoying him.

How would you deal with this?

@Badabingbadabum

I think I would deal with them separately, not sit them down together. Tell dd that taking his phone was wrong, reading his messages was embarrassing for him, give her a suitable punishment. Tell ds that using physical force against anyone is wrong and he must never do it. As he is older, explain your concerns about leaving them alone if he is going to get wound up by his sister's bad behaviour (understandable) but retaliates by hurting her. Then punishment for ds.

I agree with this.

I wouldn't get worked up about this tbh. He grabbed her wrist he didn't punch her in the face or hit or kick. He stuck up for himself by grabbing her wrist to get his property back. He wasn't just being violent in a fit of rage. Would the same reaction of out rage happen if the younger dd was a ds? Its a different relationship between siblings squabbles happen. He isnt a violent thug.
It all seems very normal to me. Dd tried to annoy ds. Invaded his privacy and wanted a wee nosey at his messages. It worked he got annoyed. And took his phone back. I would just say to dd dont read his messages thats awful u did that. Dont treat him like that. and say to ds if she does it again come get us. I dont like that she has a red mark on her wrist. U cant do that but she cant read you messages either. Then I won't give it another thought tbh.

My little sister used to be an absolute pain - she'd steal things from me and my middle sister, she'd break things / hide things etc (there's a 6 year age gap between us) and then get violent if we accused her of taking things and lash out. Our mum always believed her because she was the youngest and we always got told off for reacting to her - it caused so much resentment between us as the older two and her, especially as we couldn't do anything during the summer as we had to be home to keep an eye on her.

Your DS isn't a violent asshole or am assaulter - he's got into a slight scuffle with his sister who took his phone. They're both in the wrong, one for reacting, one for lying! If you can't prove it either way then treat both the same way and tell them both off!

Presumably he grabbed her wrist because she had his phone in her hand. Does that make him a violent arsehole or her a thieving little cow?

I don't believe either really, just saying its totally unfair to brand DS without branding DD. Nobody would sit there watching someone go through their phones without trying to get it back

You need the truth. It does sound like DS's story is far more plausible unless he has form for hurting her.

I wouldn't blame anyone for grabbing someone's wrist to get their phone back. It is a perfectly normal and proportionate response IMO.

Your son is a violent arsehole.

Helpful ...

I have been there OP, I generally sit them down and tell them that unless they tell me the truth then all devices are gone for both of them. DD used to lie A LOT to get her brother into trouble and they were both pretty plausible with their tales. They're much better now (17 and 14 now) but they could be so horrible to each other at times, much like my brother and I were to each other 40 years ago.

I wouldn't get worked up about this tbh. He grabbed her wrist he didn't punch her in the face

this^^
As others said, babysitter or some sort of holiday club for DD. Don't bother with getting to "the truth". Kids squabble. That's all to it.

Ime sit them down and say if they can't be trusted to behave you will quit your job. Therefore finances will be tight and there will be no money for phones /WiFi and treats... I have similar ages and it's annoying to have telltale phone calls when you meant to be at work
..

I'd tell them to sort out their own problems.

It's tricky. If he had punched her or whatever then I would definitely punish them both, but grabbing her wrist to retrieve his phone seems fairly proportional tbh.

I think I'd be inclined to come down on her more harshly tbh.

Well if your DS attacked your totally unprovoked then she needs to attend a holiday club for her own safety. This will cost a fortune and you will have less money to spend if fun things for her.

You might find this proposal changes her story.

Firstly your son isn't a violent arsehole.

If your son is telling the truth, it is WELL within the realm of possibility that DD ensured the red mark stayed there.

Also, lots of hyperbole in here "significant mark" "hours later"

For all we know it was minutes before OP walked through the door and her DD could be like me, gets a red mark from standing too close to a door and bruises from pillows. So let's calm down on the insults to a 15yr old boy.

The relationship between opposite sex siblings is different. Certainly when I was growing up that was how we tested boundaries, We would wind our older brothers up and they'd give us a clip/grab/shove
We learned not to steal/backchat and be more clever, and they got told off....not labelled.

I'm inclined to believe your DS it makes way way more sense than him grabbing her for no reason.

Also, let's not downplay this with"embarrassing". If she read his messages that is grossly and wholly inappropriate, a massive breach of social etiquette, and so far away from normal that needs to be hammered home.

Phones are like diaries, unless invited, don't read them.

Sibling relationships isn't a set up for being an abusive person op..
My older dc had squabbles and 2 even had a nasty physical to do!! They are besties as adults!!
Don't take sides but do say you expect better behaviour while you are not around.

*If they can't interact unsupervised then they need a babysitter. That should focus them.

I’d say this and then drop it. Me and my siblings used to fight all of the time these things happen and there’s not a lot you can do especially at their age.

Some of these replies are crazy. He’s not violent and he didn’t assault her. It’s worrying how people are so quick to think he’s abusuve, I wonder if DD has grabbed him by the wrist of the replies would be different. There’s really no need to over react.

@JustFrustrated I completely agree. Some of these replies are clearly from someone who has never met a teenager in their lives let alone dealt with sibling teenagers.

I really don't think your DD is a violent arse hole, but I do think your DD was very irritating. I speak as the younger, irritating, sister. If my brother had marked my wrist in this situation it would have served me right, but I would have loved to see my mum tell my brother off!

I don't think your DS is a violent arsehole.

That's if the truth is she took his property and was invading his privacy and the injury occurred as he tried to get it back.

The same way I would have no sympathy for a mugger in the street who stole something and ended up injured.

There is the same age difference between my sister and I. She was like this. Loves to do everything to wind me up and would take my property, invade my space and constantly verbally abuse me.
Problem is that she managed to get away with it being the youngest and it made her more confident and her behaviour escalate more.

I would be finding holiday club for 12yo and leaving the 15yo a daily list of chores.

You'll probably never know who is telling the whole truth but you need to make it clear if they are responsible to be left alone to chill then they won't be.

You Daughter behaved badly by taking his phone and invading your son's privacy.

Your Son showed a great deal of restraint, frankly, by only grabbing her wrist to get his phone back when she wouldn't return it after being asked. And she may well have ensured the mark stayed thinking she'd shed crocodile tears and he's get hammered for it.

Tell her she's going to holiday club and send her.

This is not okay. My advice would be to see if you can teach him a lesson about his unacceptable way of behaving at home.

Try taking away something that he loves truly or enforcing a important key moral etc. Definitely also use external childcare providers as a threat option as well however.

Hear them both out then ask them to calmly discuss a long term solution that is reasonable in order to solve the issue at hand. Find social activities for both kids to do in their spare time, this may even fix the problem of boredom. And it honestly sounds like both are to blame, a 12 year old should not be stealing phones at all. Yes your son was bad yet his assault was not technically speaking completely unwarranted.

He’s not violent, he grabbed her wrist because she had his phone and was going through it. Which, yes he technically shouldn’t do, but also unacceptable for her to take his phone and go through it.

The fact that he owned up to grabbing her wrist and she’s acting like it was completely unprovoked makes me believe him. He has at least admitted where his fault lay.

I’d go down the route of threatening holiday club for them, or a babysitter, and seeing if her story suddenly changes.

My 12yo D has stopped talking to me honestly. She messes with things in the house constantly and eats foods or takes items i.e. lip balm, pens, small gift items and casually lies about consuming the food/ treats as well as lying about taking, moving or even destroying my personal or household items.. things like a make up pallette or an entire soap bar, wasting a bottle of dish soap, stealing my make up or office stationery and loose change I keep in a cash box.

Recently I took her to work with me and received a call next day from the mall manager informing me that she had stolen some gum from his stall and naturally i went to defend her saying that she carries gum. Problem is she is seen as hovering on the cameras and when he asked her what's in her pocket she said sorry and handed back the stick of gum.

I'm mortified this has happened at my place of work. I have tried talking to her but she's just cried and stayed mute. its like talking to a brick wall.

I'm a single parent and her dad is in jail, for life, from before she was born. My ex left us in 2015 for another woman but I'd already gave birth again and have a 6yo, her brother. He is nothing like her and when reprimanded understands the moral and principles of choosing to do right over wrong.

She is totally indifferent and doesn't care about the consequences. I work hard and I have a work life balance, working 3/5 days from home and on a good wage, always have worked full time and kept a good routine for both kids.

I'm at a loss with her attitude towards life and constant disrespect to me as her mother and my journey to provide and support them both especially when she's constantly destroying the home I am building

Please help me with any guidance 🙏🏽

I'd say this is a non issue. A case of 'he said', 'she said'. You don't know what happened and won't know.

I'd just tell them both they need to get along, grow up and sort out their differences otherwise you won't let them stay home alone again.

Personally, I'd then just move on ...

I haven't got any helpful advice but just wanted to add for a couple of people who are focusing on there being a red mark on her wrist. My DS literally gets a red mark on him from any kind of pressure, adjusting his collar, pulling a t-shirt on leaves him with red marks all over his neck, if he itches his ear it turns bright red for ages. If i grabbed his wrist lightly he would have a red mark there for a while. So i wouldn't reliably use this as an indicator that he was definitely being too rough.

I think personally its easy to blame the one who has seemingly been violent and to downplay the actions of the other person who is seen as the victim just because they didn't do anything physical to the other person.

At the end of the day your DS shouldn't have been physical with your DD , but she also should not have touched his phone without his permission and especially not to be reading private messages.

Can I just ask everyone that says he shouldn't have grabbed her wrist; what the hell was he supposed to do? Leave her to it? To carry on reading the phone?

There were no adults around, what should he have done??