Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

[MissTrip82]

@BabyBearRus

Talking of race, my Black African-American friend recently visited north Wales with his white English wife and vowed never to step foot here again as he experienced terrible racist attitudes.

You must have been ever more shocked by that. Did you get a different reaction when you started that thread?

[fairyannie]

@BabyBearRus

Just want to mention that I am married to a very patriotic Welshman, and a daughter of a very patriotic Welshman. And my sister is Plaid Cymru all the way...like all English should be out of Wales permanently 🤷 So, I really am between a rock and a hard place. But this prejudice towards an entire nation (or rather from a white English background) leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. My husband and Dad actually cheered for the other team in the Euro 20 final. Wtf 🤷

Hmmmm.

I remember a slogan from my much younger days "Come home to a real fire - buy a cottage in Wales." brought about by Welsh people torching holiday homes of the English.

Seems nothing has changed.

That's progress for you.

[Willyoujustbequiet]

It certainly is racial discrimination as defined by the United Nations which includes national origin.

[BabyBearRus]

Willyoujustbequiet that's very interesting to know.

[BrozTito]

Ha scotland 'rebranded'?(i.e pretend they wernt involved in the empire)

[BrozTito]

A scottish girl told me the other day that the english 'banned teaching scottish history until 2006')

[PrettyLittleFlies]

I agree that xenophobia is deeply unpleasant. You see it all the time on these boards. Just yesterday someone posted a rant about Canadians being cheap. I'm unsure why anyone would think that's acceptable.

A good way to think about it is as hate. Give nothing to hate whether it's based on race, religion, gender or anything else.

Generally speaking, hate comes from fear. A lot of people are very fearful about people and places who are different to them and cope by distancing themselves with hate.

[LoveFall]

All I will say is being a white Canadian descended in part from colonists is assimilating the guilt flowing from at least two centuries of bad things that happened primarily because of colonialism.

And that is not in any way an attack on the British.

[youshallnotpass9]

I think the problem is we don't help ourselves, at the football, we still yell 2 world wars 1 world cup and Christ look at the bile that came up over the pentalties

We don't teach our kids about the shitty parts of our history, I think when I was at a school, it went Willian 1st, Henry 8th, Queen Victoria, but gloss over everything other than longest reigning monach, WW1, WW2 present day.

I am not sure about the other 3 nations, but in my part England it is either starting to get far more racist, or racists just feel more comfortable in expressing themselves in the open.

Holiday homes are always going to be a problem, not just for Wales but for a lot of places all over, they are shutting down commuties and I would be very pissed about that as well.

Should people be prejudice no of course not, but there are years of resentment building up from all over the world directed at the English, not at the UK, not helped by the government voted in or Brexit.

[LemonSwan]

That plus English incomers with far more money than locals means that many rural villages are no longer Welsh , and our children can’t afford to live in their own communities.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but thats pretty much the whole of the UK right now - its not exclusive to Wales, Scotland or Ireland. No child has the right to live where they grew up.

[DewDew83]

But, France, Portugal and Spain et al. are equally guilty of being colonists. But my original argument stands, why is England especially subject to such criticism?
Because you were in Wales, which was colonized by England, not any of the other countries you list.

There is obviously a baseline of Welsh resentment of the English as a consequence of colonisation. English holiday-home buyers are also a particularly hot topic at the moment, as its contributing to the destruction of communities and the Welsh language.

I cheered England on in the football but am finding it hard to muster much sympathy re. the holiday home owner...

[DinosaurDuvet]

But it wasn’t just many centuries ago that England done “shitty” things. It’s not that long ago that English soldiers were over here, shooting innocent people for the crime of being Irish, in Ireland. That’s just one example. In fact we are still suffering as a result of the result.

And I have had sectarian remarks made to me on numerous trips to London once they hear my accent.

[NiceGerbil]

Not RTFT

Suspect I will not have a popular viewpoint!

I mean yes hearing that was shit.

But in general I feel that people from Wales, Scotland, northern Ireland and outside UK, Ireland. Have plenty of reason to hate/ dislike us due to things we've done through history including pretty recent history.

In practice most people don't/ or its sort of a point of principle/ show eg sports.

And no tangible impacts are occurring to England because of it.

So no it doesn't bother me

Loads of people don't like their neighbours, right? We're the neighbours who appears always parked over the drive, play music till 3am, have called them all sorts of names in the past, and have moved a fence taking some of their garden.

Does that analogy work? Probably not.

Also we're all white generally so definitely not racist.

[NiceGerbil]

'
Also, my husband always goes on about the injustices commited by the English, and the suppression of the Welsh language and the pillaging of the natural wealth and resources of Wales by the English'

Goes on about? Yikes...

[DewDew83]

But it wasn’t just many centuries ago that England done “shitty” things. It’s not that long ago that English soldiers were over here, shooting innocent people for the crime of being Irish, in Ireland. That’s just one example. In fact we are still suffering as a result of the result.
Yup, and in the last century Welsh children were still being beaten in school for speaking Welsh.

[Pixxie7]

I think we can get too bogged down with racism prejudice it could just be a way of differentiating between the other nationalities there. It’s wrong and offensive but not racist anymore than someone saying that kind English couple.

[DewDew83]

There was a 1997 article in the Sunday Times, describing the Welsh "loquacious, dissemblers, immoral liars, stunted, bigoted, dark, ugly, pugnacious little trolls".

In the last decade, the Sun had an article calling for Welsh to be abolished. An associate editor of the Spectator also called for the language to be abolished.

But yeah, Anti-English sentiment is the problem

[mumsyme2]

The correct term in xenophobia or prejudice. No it’s not okay, but if I had a nickel for everytime a Brit made an underhanded comment about an American or Australian, I’d be rich.

[NiceGerbil]

Looked at OP again

'We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". '

Ok so

It wasn't aimed at you. It wasn't said to your face. You did not feel in danger. You understandably just didn't like it.

I would say tbh you're over reacting.

Did you see our football fans kicking in Italian fans?
Have you seen stuff like that sportswoman being stopped in car having baby taken off her etc? Stopped because black.
Have you heard about the abuse the 3 black footballers got?
Have you never been insulted because of a characteristic before? Eg I've been called cunt bitch slag by random men. Had them in my face etc. Because female. You must have had stuff like that. I just wouldn't feel this was a big deal.
Have you heard the way plenty of English people STILL talk about the French? The Germans?

I think you're massively over reacting.

Plus as previously mentioned our neighbours have good reason to hate us and I'm surprised so many don't.

[canihaveacoffeeplease]

On holiday in Anglesey 2 years ago we were driving down a very small single track country lane and passed a very small caravan/campsite, With a very roughly hand painted sign at the entrance that simply said 'welsh only'. We were really shocked and surprised, as apart from this we had nothing but great experiences and really lovely welcoming people everywhere we went.

[DewDew83]

With a very roughly hand painted sign at the entrance that simply said 'welsh only'.
Yeah, there's no excusing that.

[JingsMahBucket]

@BabyBearRus

Talking of race, my Black African-American friend recently visited north Wales with his white English wife and vowed never to step foot here again as he experienced terrible racist attitudes.

Wow. You just pulled out the “my Black friend” trump card what white people’s love to use when feeling aggrieved. YIKES.

[NiceGerbil]

Shocked!

Some of the posters don't seem to have got out much!

To compare...

I was in the corner shop on Thursday and these 4 massive really hyped up men came in swearing and they felt a bit dangerous, you know?

One said. I'm going to find that Greek cunt and slice his fucking balls off.

I felt that was quite shocking. But what do I know?!

[NiceGerbil]

I think I misunderstood.

Is this thread ACTUALLY just a call out to anyone who wants to slag off the Welsh?

I didn't realise soz.

[HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur]

I've definitely seen examples of what you are talking about op. I never really understand it as it seems to me that being born to one country or another is out of anyone's control. The trouble is, judging any individual by the country they are 'from' (born otherwise) is rather ridiculous when you think about it. Also, many people have forgotten to be kind and get swept away focussing on negative feelings towards one group or another. I think generally it leads to trouble and hate, which is a shame as every country has good people and bad people, where they are born doesn't change that.