I guess I know what needs to be done…

[2389Champ]

I posted in here late last year about DS and his GF and their aggressive dog.
Because of losing his job overseas, DS returned to the U.K. last year followed by GF with a young rescue dog from the country they lived in. The animal is now 18 months old and clearly has a lot of German shepherd in him which was very obvious, even when it was small.

GF has no experience of dogs so it’s a challenging breed in the first place. Sadly, it was also a lockdown puppy and spent its formative weeks in a country that had a particularly tight LD so walking and socialising were very restricted. It’s been in the U.K. since last October and has become aggressive to anyone other than DS and GF. I tried to warn her about this becoming an issue which caused a major fallout at the time, although bridges have since been built. She’s tried online trying, but there doesn’t seem to have been any improvement at all. She’s been through all sorts of weird and wonderful programs with different trainers so she’s invested heavily, both emotionally and financially in this animal.

I am a dog lover and have always had Labradors and retrievers but recognise that, beautiful as they are, a German shepherd is for an experienced owner. In fact, DH & myself visited last week and an introduction was attempted which was unsuccessful. The dog tried to launch itself and attack us both - luckily it was muzzled - despite us sitting on their sofa and avoiding any movement or eye contact and even though it was allowed to observe us through a glass connecting door beforehand to get used to our presence. It had to be dragged out of the room snarling and snapping.

I’ve just received a phone call from DS from the local A&E. The dog has attacked him and sunk its teeth into his wrist and wouldn’t let go until DS punched it in the head. Apparently it wouldn’t give up a hair tie, he tried unsuccessfully to get it off him and then ordered it out of the room. It then turned on him. I’m upset because despite my reservations, this dog was loyal to DS and was always fine with him until today.

It’s not our dog or our decision to make, but DH says it’s black and white, the dog should be destroyed. His view is what if it was a stranger or even worse, a child? I think DS and GF will want to ask our advice and I’m torn between knowing that this dog is a liability but it breaks my heart the thought of a young animal being PTS. I just want to give the best advice. Clearly, it can’t be rehomed with this behaviour.

Some rescues will take a dog with aggression issues and work with them in order to rehome them, esp. breed related ones if that helps?

They could try a GSD breed-specific rescue. They may be able to assess and advise if they feel an experienced fosterer/adopter could help.
It sounds (from your description - obviously in no way diagnosing) like it may be severe resource guarding.

Thanks for those suggestions. Maybe I’m just over sentimental but I can’t help an feeling an element of sympathy for the dog. It had a shitty start in life, abandoned on a motorway and then missed out on valuable socialisation.

You can feel sympathy for the dog & still recognise that your DS & his GF aren't experienced enough to provide the home & training it needs.
If they do decide to persevere, the group "Dog Training Advice and Support" on Facebook is excellent and a good place to start. They have some guidance on finding a suitably qualified trainer too.

Could it be offered to the police?

@sueelleker

Could it be offered to the police?

Do the police actually take dogs with a history like his? Tbf, he’s an intelligent dog and I’m sure with the right training he’d be very good. Never a pet, but as a working dog.

Was he trying to physically take the hair tie off the dog? Sounds like possible trigger stacking contributed towards the bite

Have they had a behaviourist in to work directly with them.and the dog?

Realistically what reputation rescue will be able to rehome a powerful untrained aggressive dog with a history of resource guarding and biting?
If sent to a rescue that dog is going to be in a kennel for a long time.

There are worse things than being humanly pts, hard though it is.

Your DS has to decide, you can't tell him. Though I would not be in the same house as that dog again.

Police dogs are trained from puppies this won't be an option for an older dog with behaviour issues. Sorry I have no helpful advice but I did once look at minding a police puppy whilst it went through initial training and assessment.

Apart from staying away from the dog what can you do? Report it?

Irresponsible dog ownership. Poor pup 🥺

There is no way the police would take that dog. Sorry. They take pups that are character tested and pretty much “bombproof” in personality.

Sounds like a perfect guard dog but not a pet sadly.

How is this irresponsible dog ownership? They adopted a rescue pup and then we’re forced to lock down hard in the country they were in. Meaning they were able to socialize the pup to humans and other animals.

It’s a circumstance beyond their control that led the dog to this behavior and I’d hazard a guess that there’s a whole host of young dogs obtained during lockdown (or just before) who are suffering with all manner of socialization/separation issues.

I feel terribly sorry for this dog and their owners but if a dog behaviorist can’t help, and it shows no improvement, I would have dog PTS. It’s living in a constant red zone state and can’t ever relax.

*weren’t able to socialize the pup

@Xmassprout

Was he trying to physically take the hair tie off the dog? Sounds like possible trigger stacking contributed towards the bite

Have they had a behaviourist in to work directly with them.and the dog?

That’s really interesting- thank you. I’d never heard of trigger stacking before, and having just read about it online, it makes a lot of sense. I don’t know what had happened before in the dog’s day leading up to the incident, and it would be useful to know if DS taking the hair band off him was the final straw.

No. The dog has never been assessed face to face by a behaviourist, although their vet suggested it when he had his vaxes. GF has been consulting several online experts who have offered differing solutions including changing his diet and giving him cannabis pills. Understandably, she is frightened by the dog. We could see how anxious she was when we last visited and I’m convinced the animal picks this up.

If they are going to persevere, they really need a qualified behaviourist - the group I suggested (Dog Training Advice & Support) has good advice on what to look for in a trainer.

The "online experts" do not sound good from your description. This will not be a quick fix with a pill or supplement; more like long term consistent training & positive reinforcement.

The good thing about identifying the trigger is that ìts not a random unprovoked (from the dogs point of view) incident - so the triggers can be avoided / mitigated whilethey either find the right trainer or right rescue.

I remember your post last year @2389Champ. Have relationships improved since then ? I'm guessing your son's GF didn't go home to Spain in the end

ReactiveDogsUk... on the web and on FB...are a brilliant source of info and help..and emotional support... AND they can direct your DS to a local positive behaviourist.
It sounds like the dog is reactive (terrified) from a horrible start, combined with lack of socialisation. BUT it can be helped.
It may never be a totally relaxed dog (mine is reactive, had her from a puppy but genetically nervous plus being attacked made her scared of unknown dogs and people) but it can be saved, can be improved.

It's difficult.. no doubt about it (on bad days I wonder why I have a dog) but when you see progress it's absolutely worth it...

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead

I remember your post last year *@2389Champ*. Have relationships improved since then ? I'm guessing your son's GF didn't go home to Spain in the end

No she didn’t - well done for remembering after all this time. ☺️ The relationship has improved, and to be fair to DS, he did quite a bit of mediating between us. GF was actually quite brave in the end and asked to speak to me alone in order that we sort out things between us - which we did. I would never, ever remind her but this is exactly what I feared would happen and what originally kicked off the fallout in the first place. Although my concern at the time was the dog would bite a third party - not DS!

@Grenlei

Sounds like a perfect guard dog but not a pet sadly.

Guard dogs aren't randomly aggressive. They are extremely well trained to react to situations and do what they are told.

The dog needs someone who can assess it and train it correctly.

I think that this poor dog wouldn’t make it as a guard dog. It’s far too aggressive. My suspicions would be that some “kind soul” would take it off their hands offering behavioural training etc, and use it for dog fights. Illegal, but it happens.

The dog doesn't sound overtly aggressive but reactive and fearful - this sounds like classic resource guarding.

It's likely a genetic predisposition - GSDs are reactive and if the dog comes from a stray/street dog population these dogs are usually also highly reactive

The dog sounds stressed out of his brain and constantly fearful. If they want to try managing him then he needs to be basket muzzled and leashed and very likely medicated to address his anxiety. He needs assessment by a veterinary clinical behaviourist, not a trainer.

It's very expensive and will require lifelong management - he'll likely never be 'reliable' it'll be a case of managing his triggers. Are they planning on starting a family in the next 10 years? This type of dog is unlikely to react well to the noisy unpredictable presence of children. They need to think carefully about that.

The alternative of euthanasia is not a welfare issue for the dog. It's an overdose of anaesthetic resulting in a humane peaceful death and the end of chronic stress and fear.

It's seriously bitten someone. Yes it should be put down. Unbelievably there aren't people queing up to take on an aggressive large breed dog that bites, even though Mumsnet seems to think there is. There are worse things than putting it to sleep. Pass it on and there's a good chance it will fall into the wrong hands and end up being used for fighting.

I also think a peaceful end is far from the worst thing that could happen to a stressed, reactive, aggressive, dangerous dog. And its owners.

Yes, poor dog never had much chance, which is sad, but its not through neglect or lack of effort. Perhaps more experienced owners would have made a difference, but it sounds a bit late now.

It doesn't have a happy carefree doggy life. It probably never will. It's a danger to people around it. I think euthanasia is the humane and responsible choice. Rehoming is a huge risk for the dog in these circumstances. It might end up OK. Or it might end up with someone who wants an aggressive dog, which would not be good. Dog fighting. Living on a chain in a yard.