I guess I know what needs to be done…

[2389Champ]

I posted in here late last year about DS and his GF and their aggressive dog.
Because of losing his job overseas, DS returned to the U.K. last year followed by GF with a young rescue dog from the country they lived in. The animal is now 18 months old and clearly has a lot of German shepherd in him which was very obvious, even when it was small.

GF has no experience of dogs so it’s a challenging breed in the first place. Sadly, it was also a lockdown puppy and spent its formative weeks in a country that had a particularly tight LD so walking and socialising were very restricted. It’s been in the U.K. since last October and has become aggressive to anyone other than DS and GF. I tried to warn her about this becoming an issue which caused a major fallout at the time, although bridges have since been built. She’s tried online trying, but there doesn’t seem to have been any improvement at all. She’s been through all sorts of weird and wonderful programs with different trainers so she’s invested heavily, both emotionally and financially in this animal.

I am a dog lover and have always had Labradors and retrievers but recognise that, beautiful as they are, a German shepherd is for an experienced owner. In fact, DH & myself visited last week and an introduction was attempted which was unsuccessful. The dog tried to launch itself and attack us both - luckily it was muzzled - despite us sitting on their sofa and avoiding any movement or eye contact and even though it was allowed to observe us through a glass connecting door beforehand to get used to our presence. It had to be dragged out of the room snarling and snapping.

I’ve just received a phone call from DS from the local A&E. The dog has attacked him and sunk its teeth into his wrist and wouldn’t let go until DS punched it in the head. Apparently it wouldn’t give up a hair tie, he tried unsuccessfully to get it off him and then ordered it out of the room. It then turned on him. I’m upset because despite my reservations, this dog was loyal to DS and was always fine with him until today.

It’s not our dog or our decision to make, but DH says it’s black and white, the dog should be destroyed. His view is what if it was a stranger or even worse, a child? I think DS and GF will want to ask our advice and I’m torn between knowing that this dog is a liability but it breaks my heart the thought of a young animal being PTS. I just want to give the best advice. Clearly, it can’t be rehomed with this behaviour.

I have a dog of a breed known for being gentle and good with children. Mine isn't! She is suspicious of strangers and loaths other dogs (now ignores my other 2 but they have had their moments). She adores me, dh and dm, and is not interested in the other adults in the house, she let's me do anything to her - apart from clean her ears!
She is a definite risk to others, but not to us and therefore I keep her happy and everyone else safe by not putting her in a position where something could happen that would cause her to do something irreparable. My children are adults and we are not yet at grandchild stage. If we were we would manage but it would be more stressful. If my dog bit any of the "trusted ones" she would have to be pts and I would do it though it would break my heart.
Your son and gf are probably in for a miserable time if they keep this dog (mine is almost 12 now and time takes it's toll!!) but it needs to be pts for its own sake as a dog like that could end up being used as a fighting dog, or caged for the rest of his life. Honestly, I love my dog as much as my kids but life has been harder with her - my other 2 are a doddle!!
This is longer than necessary but basically now he has bitten your son, and his gf is nervous, it is dangerous and cruel to keep him (alive)

Once a dog has bitten a human and attempted to attack others I think euthanasia is the only option.

Next time it could be your DD or a child. They could die.

You can report aggressive dangerous dogs to the police. That’s what I’d do in this situation.

GSD are wonderful with the right upbringing, handler and training but it sounds like they’ve been down the training route and it’s too late to change the dog’s behaviour. Sad but better than someone else being injured or worse.

Agree with others, this poor dog needs to be humanely euthanised. Never will your son and girlfriend be able to trust it, they’ll be on tenterhooks all the time, and the dog will be unhappy.

Offer him to the MoD

They take dogs with a history like this and the handlers are very experienced.

I think this is a culmination of not being socialised and not being properly trained because of lockdown

I do think that the dog needs to see a behaviourist and start again with the dog from the beginning
Maybe this is ultimately about a different owner who can give this dog a purpose to redirect the breed specific issues

@Strokethefurrywall

How is this irresponsible dog ownership? They adopted a rescue pup and then we’re forced to lock down hard in the country they were in. Meaning they were able to socialize the pup to humans and other animals.

It’s a circumstance beyond their control that led the dog to this behavior and I’d hazard a guess that there’s a whole host of young dogs obtained during lockdown (or just before) who are suffering with all manner of socialization/separation issues.

I feel terribly sorry for this dog and their owners but if a dog behaviorist can’t help, and it shows no improvement, I would have dog PTS. It’s living in a constant red zone state and can’t ever relax.

Irresponsible to not match themselves to a dog that would potentially suit them better? An aggressive chihuahua wouldn’t be much fun either, but I would rather drag that off an innocent passerby than an aggressive Alsatian.

@Sideorderofchips

Offer him to the MoD

They take dogs with a history like this and the handlers are very experienced.

Not always.

I don’t want to blame anyone, as it has become the perfect storm through circumstances, but the Spanish shelter maybe should have tried to match a more appropriate dog to an inexperienced owner too. Even as a puppy, I could see it had a lot of GSD in it and also knew it would grow up to be a big dog, whatever its temperament. Battersea have agreed to take it, but I suspect it will be PTS once any assessments are made as I know it will react badly to any stranger, let alone people it knows.

@2389Champ

I don’t want to blame anyone, as it has become the perfect storm through circumstances, but the Spanish shelter maybe should have tried to match a more appropriate dog to an inexperienced owner too. Even as a puppy, I could see it had a lot of GSD in it and also knew it would grow up to be a big dog, whatever its temperament. Battersea have agreed to take it, but I suspect it will be PTS once any assessments are made as I know it will react badly to any stranger, let alone people it knows.

Then why not do the responsible and kind thing and PTS now rather than wasting charity resources and putting the dog through stressful tests before being PTS with strangers?

Totally, totally agree - but ultimately it’s not my dog to make the decision. I can and will only offer advice if I’m asked by them.

I have walked with German Shepherd dogs before and I think lockdown has a lot to answer for what has happened here.
I presume they were in a flat and probably didn’t really do any training apart from a few commands
Whether it can be turned round I don’t know but I think actually seeing a behaviourist, especially if they have successes with GSDs with this sort of problems in person has to be the first stop to actually see if there is anything that can be done.

All well and good doing training on line if you haven’t had a dog in lockdown but I think it is better to get someone they can work with.

Irresponsible to not match themselves to a dog that would potentially suit them better?

I don’t really agree with this based on what the OP has said.

This is far more of a result of lockdown crippling their ability to effectively socialize and train the dog in its formative years than the inherent breed of the dog.
However, I’d be saying exactly the same if it was an aggressive and reactive chihuahua (of which we have plenty here and many of them are vicious shits because they’ve been kept in handbags and treated like babies), it should be PTS humanely.

You could say the same about any dog that experiences the same level of stress regardless of the breed.
That’s why I don’t believe it’s irresponsible dog ownership. They may have been perfect owners of this dog if the right circumstances had allowed, but it didn’t. Breed is irrelevant.

@Strokethefurrywall

Irresponsible to not match themselves to a dog that would potentially suit them better?

I don’t really agree with this based on what the OP has said.

This is far more of a result of lockdown crippling their ability to effectively socialize and train the dog in its formative years than the inherent breed of the dog.
However, I’d be saying exactly the same if it was an aggressive and reactive chihuahua (of which we have plenty here and many of them are vicious shits because they’ve been kept in handbags and treated like babies), it should be PTS humanely.

You could say the same about any dog that experiences the same level of stress regardless of the breed.
That’s why I don’t believe it’s irresponsible dog ownership. They may have been perfect owners of this dog if the right circumstances had allowed, but it didn’t. Breed is irrelevant.

I suspect we'll be seeing the 'lockdown effect' for a while but the reality is that there's a lot of socialisation (more properly called habituation) that can be done in the home or on sporadic outings (I assume the dog was allowed out to the toilet).

Unfortunately the reality is that most lockdown dog owners simply didn't do this

For example on this checklist with over 50 items for socialisation there's probably only half a dozen or so that rely on access to other people or that couldn't be modified to some extent

drsophiayin.com/app/uploads/2015/12/Socialization_Checklist.pdf

In this case I suspect genetics also played a part

Not all police dogs are trained from puppies so it's definitely worth seeing if that's an option. If not the armed forces take certain dogs for working purposes too.

@2389Champ

Thanks for those suggestions. Maybe I’m just over sentimental but I can’t help an feeling an element of sympathy for the dog. It had a shitty start in life, abandoned on a motorway and then missed out on valuable socialisation.

What about contacting dogs4rescue in Manchester? They may be able to advise?

I think there will be a lot of pups like this around the world.
We were fortunate that we could actually leave our houses to go on a walk somewhere.
Who knows what long term psychological impact even our relatively laid back lockdown has had on children born after March 2020.
With children you can explain and talk to them. With a dog you are guessing and you can’t tell them it is ok that there are other people in the world apart from the humans.
Already had a massive journey where the outside has changed. People going round and suddenly being introduced to a scary new outside world where everything is new and other people and dogs have an understanding of what is going on, speak a different language. No wonder he is agitated and in attack mode at everything and everyone.
Taking something he is familiar with away could tip him over the edge.

I would give him a chance but I think it would involve valium and going back to basics with training. Even just walking on a lead with treats and a change of direction if he starts to get too upset by another dog

I can't comment on the dog but please make sure your DS gets proper medical treatment for the bite so that it doesn't get infected - dog bites can be very nasty.

@UnaOfStormhold

I can't comment on the dog but please make sure your DS gets proper medical treatment for the bite so that it doesn't get infected - dog bites can be very nasty.

Thank you, yes he went straight to A&E as it was right on his wrist, close to his pulse point. He had stitches and a tetanus jab. The hospital also said they were obliged to report it to the police.

I have recently given a home to a dog of a more challenging breed. He has a severe resource guarding issue and we are very careful about taking things from him.

DS was almost bound to get bitten in these circumstances. Just as dragging a sleeping dog off a bed or sofa could get you bitten. If they keep this dog they need to learn more about the dog and its issues.

If they are likely to want children in the next 10 years they should probably try to get the dog in a rescue centre. A dog like this will never be safe with small children.

That's great that Battersea will take him.

They might well be able to train him and to stop the resource guarding so that he can live out his life.

@emilylily

That's great that Battersea will take him.

They might well be able to train him and to stop the resource guarding so that he can live out his life.

From what DS and GF have said, the dog has always had an issue with resource guarding. Understandably, this has made GF more and more nervous with it so it’s consequently become more and more dominant and possessive.

I spoke to DS about the lead up to the potential of a stacking issue, but he said it had been as far as he was aware, a very ordinary day for the dog,

God, I hope this bonkers GF doesn’t immediately feel entitled to get herself a new dog for “therapy”.

@Veterinari

The dog doesn't sound overtly aggressive but reactive and fearful - this sounds like classic resource guarding.

It's likely a genetic predisposition - GSDs are reactive and if the dog comes from a stray/street dog population these dogs are usually also highly reactive

The dog sounds stressed out of his brain and constantly fearful. If they want to try managing him then he needs to be basket muzzled and leashed and very likely medicated to address his anxiety. He needs assessment by a veterinary clinical behaviourist, not a trainer.

It's very expensive and will require lifelong management - he'll likely never be 'reliable' it'll be a case of managing his triggers. Are they planning on starting a family in the next 10 years? This type of dog is unlikely to react well to the noisy unpredictable presence of children. They need to think carefully about that.

The alternative of euthanasia is not a welfare issue for the dog. It's an overdose of anaesthetic resulting in a humane peaceful death and the end of chronic stress and fear.

This. but This.

He ended up in a&e. As heartbreaking as it is, the dog should be put down.
Just imagine if it ever got out or they momentarily weren’t watching it and it did that to a child. Only a child would be face height, doesn’t bear thinking about and not worth the risk.
Unfortunately some dogs can’t be retrained, and if it snapped at it’s owner, I can’t see anywhere taking it in to be honest.

Justilou1

I don’t think that this ultimately had anything to do with the gf and more to do with the harsh lockdown in the country they were living.
Trying to raise a puppy without any socialising, walks and only the inside of a flat/house to get any exercise. It wasn’t going to be good for any dog