I guess I know what needs to be done…

[2389Champ]

I posted in here late last year about DS and his GF and their aggressive dog.
Because of losing his job overseas, DS returned to the U.K. last year followed by GF with a young rescue dog from the country they lived in. The animal is now 18 months old and clearly has a lot of German shepherd in him which was very obvious, even when it was small.

GF has no experience of dogs so it’s a challenging breed in the first place. Sadly, it was also a lockdown puppy and spent its formative weeks in a country that had a particularly tight LD so walking and socialising were very restricted. It’s been in the U.K. since last October and has become aggressive to anyone other than DS and GF. I tried to warn her about this becoming an issue which caused a major fallout at the time, although bridges have since been built. She’s tried online trying, but there doesn’t seem to have been any improvement at all. She’s been through all sorts of weird and wonderful programs with different trainers so she’s invested heavily, both emotionally and financially in this animal.

I am a dog lover and have always had Labradors and retrievers but recognise that, beautiful as they are, a German shepherd is for an experienced owner. In fact, DH & myself visited last week and an introduction was attempted which was unsuccessful. The dog tried to launch itself and attack us both - luckily it was muzzled - despite us sitting on their sofa and avoiding any movement or eye contact and even though it was allowed to observe us through a glass connecting door beforehand to get used to our presence. It had to be dragged out of the room snarling and snapping.

I’ve just received a phone call from DS from the local A&E. The dog has attacked him and sunk its teeth into his wrist and wouldn’t let go until DS punched it in the head. Apparently it wouldn’t give up a hair tie, he tried unsuccessfully to get it off him and then ordered it out of the room. It then turned on him. I’m upset because despite my reservations, this dog was loyal to DS and was always fine with him until today.

It’s not our dog or our decision to make, but DH says it’s black and white, the dog should be destroyed. His view is what if it was a stranger or even worse, a child? I think DS and GF will want to ask our advice and I’m torn between knowing that this dog is a liability but it breaks my heart the thought of a young animal being PTS. I just want to give the best advice. Clearly, it can’t be rehomed with this behaviour.

I followed the original thread. Both the son and the GF have been living rent-free in the OP’s second house. OP has been footing the bills for this for a long time. OP expressed her concerns about this dog trashing the place and was abused by the GF. The dog’s behaviour obviously never improved. However… the reason I called this GF entitled was because she claimed that this dog was going to be her “project” for her own MH. Despite having no experience with this and taking no actual advice, she thought she knew better. This dog was NOT trained or socialized after being rescued from a potentially traumatic situation. Minimising the risks of a potentially dangerous dog and NOT doing anything about is is entitled because the dog pays the price.
I am saying this as an experienced dog owner with a large-breed dog with anxiety issues that can at times make her aggressive. (So far only towards dogs.) She is six now and we have had her since she was a pup. She was attacked by two large American Pitbulls and this caused the dog aversion, but she has always been anxious. A lot of pups from her litter were the same, so I assume it is a breeding problem. (They are supposed to be a bomb-proof temperament, which is why I chose this breed!) We out in the hours and the money with the exercise and the behaviouralists. Where we live and who we have to visit is defined by this dog as we will not risk the safety of little children, etc. If she were to be aggressive towards a person, as much as I love her and it would break my heart, I would have to have her pts.

Thank god it was your ds wrist and not his face. I’m sorry but if that was my child then I wouldn’t have much sympathy for the dog.

I'm firmly in the euthanasia camp.
No idea about dogs but temperament in cattle is considered to be at least 70% genetic. Assuming a large part of dog temperament is genetic too. You might modify the behaviour of the dog somewhat but I would be very sceptical of it ever being a reliable family pet, safe under most circumstances.
A Shepherd is a glorious dog, and I've owned a couple but they're strong enough to do serious damage to someone

This dog was NOT trained or socialized after being rescued from a potentially traumatic situation

How would they have trained and socialised this dog when the country went into a harsh lockdown and they couldn’t leave the house.

Dogs in Spain are treated appallingly so often, it breaks your heart. Unfortunately this has gone too far now and it sounds like putting the animal to sleep is the only option. (I say that as a dog lover and someone who spent the first extreme lockdown out in Spain).

On a side note, I'd say it wasn't the best move to be introduced to the dog in their home.. Whenever we've brought. a rescue dog home we've always introduced it to our other dogs on neutral territory, just in case there were any territorial issues. (There never were).

No the police would not touch this dog. Nor would it be a guard dog. It’s obviously resource guarding and highly nervous.

Battersea I know for a fact will take dogs that have bitten. Maybe speak to them

OP: I am glad to see Battersea have agreed to take the poor dog. They are very good at giving difficult dogs every chance and lots of time. My rescue arrived with them with health issues and behavioural issues (apparently would come forward in her kennel growling if anyone approached at first). They spent 3 months on what they termed "sorting out her various issues (health and behavioural) before she was ready to be rehomed. Staff spent a long time just sitting with her to gain her trust (I met one of them) and later, when they found how stressed she was at being in the kennel environment, even though she was now much better with the people, it was decided that she would go home with a staff member every night so she wasn't 24 hrs in a kennel. They could not have done more and I now have a lovely, affectionate, well behaved dog, who is very happy. Really, I would say they saved her life.

Latest update.

GF has not ‘finally’ decided what she is going to do about the dog. Apparently, the shelter of her choice has a waiting list, she doesn’t want to take it to Battersea after all and is considering returning with it to Spain. DS has told her he doesn’t want to lose her, but it’s him or the dog. She says she needs more time and doesn’t want to be rushed into a decision.

Not my problem and something they need to resolve between themselves but I hope she’s aware that if it attacks a third party, she won’t have the luxury of time to make any choices and will be personally and financially liable too.

Lynda is not quite so full of herself as to put herself forward as a celebrity for fete opening.

And I do wish they'd go back to drama (by which I mean drama not soap). They're no good at comedy. It's even worse when it's just talked about.

@Bythemillpond

This dog was NOT trained or socialized after being rescued from a potentially traumatic situation

How would they have trained and socialised this dog when the country went into a harsh lockdown and they couldn’t leave the house.

because you could leave the house to exercise dogs and many socialisation activities could be done inside as per my previous post.

The problem is that most dog owners fundamentally misunderstand socialisation.

@MereDintofPandiculation

Lynda is not quite so full of herself as to put herself forward as a celebrity for fete opening.

And I do wish they'd go back to drama (by which I mean drama not soap). They're no good at comedy. It's even worse when it's just talked about.

Veterinari

because you could leave the house to exercise dogs and many socialisation activities could be done inside as per my previous post

No you couldn’t leave the house.

Just come on this thread and I’m a bit confused,
Is the dog going to Battersea?

@Bythemillpond

Veterinari

because you could leave the house to exercise dogs and many socialisation activities could be done inside as per my previous post

No you couldn’t leave the house.

@Bythemillpond Spaniards were allowed to leave the house to exercise dogs throughout their strict lockdown. As were people in the UK.

So yes at-home habituation to a wide range of stimuli was possible and walking to expose to other dogs/different surfaces etc was also possible.

Part of the problem with socialisation is that most dog owners don't really understand the process and assumed that because exercise was restricted they couldn't do anything when in fact a lot of habituation activities can be done in the home.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-quarantine-idUSKBN21C395

Also it's perfectly possible to conduct training activities in the home

Excuse me!!? The dog should be “destroyed”?!? Wtf is wrong with you.

Sorry…just read again. Let me rephrase that. Wtf is wrong with your husband!!?

Just wanted to say that there isn’t inherently anything wrong with GSDs. I’ve had them all my life and they can be the most gentle, loving and incredible family dogs. But they do need the right home. I just feel the breed gets a lot of bad press and I get a lot of unwelcome comments about my big boy but he has a heart of gold. He has taken a lot of work tho.

@avamiah

Just come on this thread and I’m a bit confused, Is the dog going to Battersea?

No. GF has changed her mind about Battersea. She’s still deciding what to do with the dog. apparently her shelter of choice has a waiting list and she’s also thinking about moving back to Spain with it - which I guess will be the end of their relationship as she will have chosen the dog over DS.

She (GF) needs to take the dog to see a trainer who specialises in reactive dogs, I imagine (but am not a trainer) that he is not truly aggressive, but fear reactive.

I know of a really good trainer in the North east (near Newcastle) who would be able to help. If she really, really wants to help the dog, she'll travel. Feel free to pm me and I can send you his details.

@2389Champ having worked and owned GSDs for many many years OP, she would be far better trying to get it into a GSD specific rescue, GSDR is a nationwide one who are excellent and will take a dog with a bite history and also have experience with overseas dogs. There is also one locally to me (Midlands) which although much smaller has lots of experience with problem dogs.

A reactive dog is hard work at the best of times and absolutely not for the faint hearted. Many can be rehabilitated, some will need minor adjustments making for the rest of their lives and sadly some are always problematic

If she doesn't want to rehome then she absolutely needs a behaviourist to come and work with her and the dog in person. There are oodles of online resources some better than others but the problem is you need to correctly know what know what triggering the issues and many owners miss the subtle early signs of stress and anxiety and then are surprised when the dog does something and can actively make the problem worse through the training they are doing. She needs to know the signs the dog is stressed and make sure any training/socialisation she is doing is in the dogs comfort zone a qualified behaviourist absolutely will help with that.

[quote BlueEyesWhiteDragon]@2389Champ having worked and owned GSDs for many many years OP, she would be far better trying to get it into a GSD specific rescue, GSDR is a nationwide one who are excellent and will take a dog with a bite history and also have experience with overseas dogs. There is also one locally to me (Midlands) which although much smaller has lots of experience with problem dogs.

A reactive dog is hard work at the best of times and absolutely not for the faint hearted. Many can be rehabilitated, some will need minor adjustments making for the rest of their lives and sadly some are always problematic

If she doesn't want to rehome then she absolutely needs a behaviourist to come and work with her and the dog in person. There are oodles of online resources some better than others but the problem is you need to correctly know what know what triggering the issues and many owners miss the subtle early signs of stress and anxiety and then are surprised when the dog does something and can actively make the problem worse through the training they are doing. She needs to know the signs the dog is stressed and make sure any training/socialisation she is doing is in the dogs comfort zone a qualified behaviourist absolutely will help with that.[/quote]
Thank you.
I saw a GSDR rescue online near Hereford, which sounds exactly the one chance this dog might need. Is this the one you are referring to?

The tragedy is; until it bit DS, it seemed to have a very good bond with him. It’s incredibly aggressive with anyone other than GF and GS and even GF seems to be very frightened of it. Our neighbour always had beautifully trained GSDs and he was always firm - not cruel - but assertive with them and they were fabulous dogs. GF hangs on its harness trying to appeal to it to behave and constantly makes excuses for the behaviour rather than dealing with it.

When she first arrived in the U.K. with it, you might remember from my post last year, she told us that in order to allow the dog to settle, she didn’t want anyone visiting for at least a month, which we respected. With hindsight, isolating the dog from people even more may well have compounded the socialisation issues.

Please never get another dog