To not know how to make summer holidays fun with 4yo and 5mo?

[Draineddraineddrained]

This is just horrible. Thought we'd have do much fun together but no-one is getting what they need. 5 month old never gets a proper nap or a proper feed because I have no time between that, pumping, nappy changing and feeding and entertaining the 4yo. Can't go out easily as 5 month old hates sleep right now and will only nap in 45 minute bursts in dark room (plus there's nothing they both enjoy, if I play with 4yo nsnu screams in pram, if I play with 5mo 4yo is bored and plays up). Baby won't go down for dad any more so every night it's my turn to do 4yo I have to do them both - it's so so stressful as no idea when baby will finally settle, worried 4yo will be up too late and she's always up at 7 regardless so if up late will be cranky all day long. I'm just so tired and ratty and wrung out and not enough for anyone. It's so shit for my babies 😭

Put the 4yo in some camps or arrange some play dates so the 4yo has some company. If the 4yo is at home with you all summer without much interaction with their peers they’ll go mad (and so will you).

Second the above!

My sons going to a forest school camp 9-1 for 3 weeks so he can play with kids is own age.

Get the 4yo in a holiday clubs couple of days a week. Your DH should be putting the 4yo to bed every night so you get a break once the baby is down and don’t have to deal with cranky child the next day.

Also could your partner do 4yo bedtime every night for a while just to give you a rest?

I’d also say lower your expectations and realise that from a 4yo’s perspective hanging around with a baby all day is pretty rubbish. Their needs are quite different.

What is the 4m old like in a sling?

Are you set on carrying on expressing? It’s exhausting without Summer Holidays and a 4 yr old to contend with as well.

Partner happy to do 4yo bedtime but 4yo would be gutted - it's our only alone time, esp now baby won't nap. Don't want to make her even more jealous than she already is!

Baby is ok in sling if I keep moving, but I find I can't really do anything the 4yo wants me to do with her (running, jumping, climbing, rolling around on the floor - she's become v physical with me since baby was born) with her in there. Also she's massive - born 9lb4 and hasn't dropped off her line yet!

Baby is very patchy taking the breast - will only really contemplate it lying down in a dark room and not always then - so expressing is necessary for now. She refused to nurse at all for her first week and had to be persuaded into it over about 9 weeks - she's just not that fussed so will refuse and starve herself if that's all she's offered. She can be resistant to the bottle as well, so it takes forever to feed her. Pain in the arse yet somehow she continues to grow!!

Thanks for replies btw,feeling a bit wretched this evening. Had my second Covid jab today too so maybe that's not helping!

Re holiday clubs there really isn't much on for her age group locally. She's going to a school run one last week of hols so that's good. And we're going down to Cornwall next week, but obvs with kids that young it's just same shit different location and without all our stuff 😆

Can you get some help from family? Even just someone to hold the baby for an hour or so.

Definitely send the 4 year old to some activities. Get some energy out in the morning and then have an easier afternoon. Snuggle up together and watch a film. Look for activities that the 4 year old can do independently with you just watching/helping occasionally, things like stickers, playdough, craft stuff.

There is a book called “The Idle Parent”, it quite funny and appears to be sarcastic but there is a lot of truths in it. He has a chapter about holidaying with young kids and his best tip is don’t even try and if you do go with the flow and attempt as little as possible, which seems not nice but honestly, young children do not need much to feel totally fed up especially after the routines go out of the window and they are in an unfamiliar environment.

So try to rest when they rest, and give them a good run or a long swim before bed time. Then take it easy yourself, the time will come when you all enjoy the holidays… and also the time when you will miss them because instead of pestering you through out the holiday they just want to do their own thing and play with their phones

No family alas - I do have a lovely friend (mum of a uni friend) who is her unofficial fake granny and we're going to spend a few hours there tomorrow - she will squish the baby, her husband will get bossed around by the big girl and I will be given tea to drink so that will be AMAZING ❤️

My 4yo doesn't really do "independently" 😬 which is a whole other issue. She's been wowing my socks off this week by coming up to see me in the morning having fully dressed herself - that this is a big deal gives you an idea of where she's at. Bright as a button but very high needs in terms of adult focus and input. If she gets it she's usually great, but if she doesn't she can start really really playing up (not at nursery or pre school though apparently - weird magic places!). This was fine when I only had her to deal with, I actually loved playing with her. Now it's just really hard to make the time/get my hands free long enough to give her what she wants!

Ah, just noticed… you are at home, sorry.

Oh dear that difference in ages is a difficult one to bridge! You will also need some rest.

My advice, do not try to do absolutely anything while they are awake, no cleaning, no cooking, no shopping just keep an eye on them. You will get exhausted and accomplish almost nothing.

A what time do they wake up? Any chance you can get out of bed 90 minutes before them and do all the tidy up prepare meals before they do?

I survived single motherhood by going to bed at 8 (as DS) and woke up at 4:30 for an hour of time on my own, tidy up, cooking and getting ready undisputed before DS woke up.
When I cooked, I cooked for six instead of two and all extras would go to the freezer already split in portions that only needed to be defrosted when needed. (If you do this three times a week, you will have so many different dishes after a few days you may big need to cook at all when you are having a bad day)

And remember, boredom is the mother of creativity, do something with them when you can but not the whole day, a good run around in the park followed by an afternoon of CBBIEs when you also need to catch your breath

Advertise for a responsible teen to work as a mother's helper for a few afternoons a week.

Do you have a garden?
Teen could supervise paddling pool, imagination games, painting, running in a sprinkler, etc. Do you have a sand box? Digging can while the hours away very nicely.

On wet days they could read, watch a little TV, build with blocks, play with play dough, etc.

@GrandmasCat

Brilliant ideas thank you! Baby wakes up sometime between 6 and 7 - never later as that's when big child wakes up and bounces into bed with us! I really should get up earlier as obvs that's a reasonable wake up time for young kids - but baby wakes in the night a lot so every morning I plan to and then every morning can't quite drag myself out of bed! Must Try Harder. You have just reminded me to make the pack-up for tomorrow now while they're asleep though x

We don't have a garden, just a hankie sized yard, that's probably a big factor in why i feel so trapped - also DP is WFH upstairs at a desk on the landing so we can't really leave the playroom and/or kitchen diner without disturbing him so it's a pretty small footprint! Thus the need to get out - but nowhere further than the time interval between the baby's next feed and/or nap... So bloody frustrating!

Anyway very first world problem - I'm lucky to have them, and to be pm mat leave so don't have to worry about summer care for big girl for one more year - I just worry they're both having a miserable time!

You know these magic places… they are normally magic because all the kids are expected to take turns and the rules almost never bend. She is old enough to understand that at times it is her turn to play and at others, she needs to wait while you deal with the baby or you are busy. You will notice in due course that second or third babies are more easier to manage, this is normally because mum has her hands so full with the older sibling(s) they learn to entertain themselves and wait their turn. I think that little by little you can get your older child to understand that families are teams where EVERYONE has a right to be in the front of the queue from time to time and that also includes you: you cannot function properly as a mum if you are exhausted all the time.

Very true @grandmascat - I do have a slight tendency to martyrdom that then becomes stress/resentment when I can't make everyone happy all the time ("I'm bending over backwards and they're STILL not happy!" type thoughts). The only sensible answer is to stop bending over backwards, try and desensitise myself to all the crying and remain a calm, consistent mummy, instead of ratcheting back and forth between people-pleasing and grumpy all day long 😁 hard to break the habits of a lifetime but it's got to be done!!

Mine are 3 and 5mo so my advice might be rubbish because I'm not sure how different a 4yo is to a 3yo but I basically do the opposite to the advice from @GrandmasCat and try to do as many jobs around the house as I can while they're both awake but persuade DS1 that he is 'helping' - maybe a 4yo can no longer be fooled like this?! The advantage of this is that I don't use baby's naps for anything other than focused attention on DS1 and that it doesn't all get saved up for the evening so I get some downtime. I also just accept that DS2 will have crap naps and doesn't have much of a schedule because he just gets dragged around to wherever I'm going with DS1, but I realise that I can do that because he gets grumpy/whingy when tired but not screamingly unhappy.

Someone told me once, when DS was a toddler that if you attend to every cry/tantrum you are just teaching them to cry harder.

There must be an element of truth on that, I am not saying you should neglect your kids but you can start by asking them to wait for a minute, while you sort something else or give them something to do while you finish. It doesn’t have to be something amazing… I remember DS almost losing it during a holiday when we joined a tour. It was a very hot day and we had been walking around for a while so DS sat on the floor and started demanding to be taken to the hotel NOW. Then an old lady in the Tour, took a little paper bag and passed it to him asking to choose some stones for her and to fill the bag with them… absolute magic, he stopped whinging and happily went into choosing stones

I think we just crossposted @hadbackwriter, giving them something to do does help a lot but sometimes you need to take a less stressful route if you are dealing with the very different needs and demands of a young baby and a young child.

Yes, totally agree re sometimes taking path of least resistance! And as I say my age gap is a bit smaller which must make it easier, maybe more so than I realise - at some point DS1 is going to stop accepting putting the laundry into piles for me as a valid activity and I guess that may well be before he's 4!

I don’t want to make this into a breast V bottle thread but could adding a couple of bottles of formula to baby’s routine add to everyone’s happiness? I’m not saying give up BF but will reduce need to express and May settle baby for longer?

That and your DH needs to help more. I don’t care what his job is if he can do it from home it can’t be that important. Maybe he also needs to move his desk.

Good luck OP. I’m sure your kids are well cared for and lucky to have you.

similar position but older children here. 5yo (6 in september) and 10 month old. None of us getting what we need.
Hope it gets easier OP

@wouldthatbeworse

I did use formula when she was tiny while I was getting my act together with pumping so not against it on principle, but I'd rather not use it if I don't have to - not least because I'm v worried about preparing/storing it "wrong" and making her ill! Can't afford the pre-made stuff we used when tiny long term, and the powdered stuff the making it up seems so faffy according to the packet - making up fresh each time, boiling a fresh kettle half an hour before you want to feed baby, feed whole bottle within one hour of starting or discard - the way my child eats I'd be throwing away A LOT. Breast milk may be a bit labour intensive to harvest but once I've got it I can be a lot more responsive and flexible with it. Not at all sure how people ever get out of the house if using formula, although obviously they manage somehow!