To not know how to make summer holidays fun with 4yo and 5mo?

[Draineddraineddrained]

This is just horrible. Thought we'd have do much fun together but no-one is getting what they need. 5 month old never gets a proper nap or a proper feed because I have no time between that, pumping, nappy changing and feeding and entertaining the 4yo. Can't go out easily as 5 month old hates sleep right now and will only nap in 45 minute bursts in dark room (plus there's nothing they both enjoy, if I play with 4yo nsnu screams in pram, if I play with 5mo 4yo is bored and plays up). Baby won't go down for dad any more so every night it's my turn to do 4yo I have to do them both - it's so so stressful as no idea when baby will finally settle, worried 4yo will be up too late and she's always up at 7 regardless so if up late will be cranky all day long. I'm just so tired and ratty and wrung out and not enough for anyone. It's so shit for my babies 😭

Solidarity @Treaclepie19! Hope yours have a better day tomorrow (and mine!!)

@wouldthatbeworse

I don’t want to make this into a breast V bottle thread but could adding a couple of bottles of formula to baby’s routine add to everyone’s happiness? I’m not saying give up BF but will reduce need to express and May settle baby for longer?

That and your DH needs to help more. I don’t care what his job is if he can do it from home it can’t be that important. Maybe he also needs to move his desk.

Good luck OP. I’m sure your kids are well cared for and lucky to have you.

Exactly this. Pumping is a nightmare, and I'm not sure that the benefits outweigh the advantages for you and your family. You can do mixed feeding so that the baby still has some breast milk. Dh does need to step up, if he can't put the older child to bed, then let him deal with the baby. The 4 year old presumably goes to be around 7? Both of them can go at the same time. They both need to be tired out by the time they go to bed - DH could take them both out for a walk while you recover/tidy/whtaever. If he's not going to be helpful during the day ( eg deal with lunch) then can he go back to the office to work? Or somewhere more convenient? Maybe he can take the baby while you have a little 1:1 with the 4 year old. Playdates/meetups in the park etc will all help with the older one, and the baby is probably more easily entertained by whatever is going on around him/her. The older one will presumably be in school in September, which will be you opportunity to get the baby into a routine and keep the older one busy, it will be a lot easier in only 5 weeks time! Meanwhile, can you afford any help? Local teenager for a few hours here and there? I used to love it when the 8 year old next door used to knock to come and play!

Re DP he's actually a bit of a legend - gets up an hour earlier than I do and does a load of jobs round the house, then comes down from work and does a load more and never complains - I didn't even manage to get the washing in today (that he had hung out first thing!) and that was the first thing he did at 5 o'clock. He's great with the 4yo but baby is just off him at the moment - no idea why she used to love him! She's teething and trying to crawl so generally just a bag of grumps right now. And he really isn't a fan of babies and pretty much had this one to please me (he wanted another child but was dreading going through babyhood again to the point he didnt think he could do it) so I don't feel right just saying they'll have to rub along!

Both tend to finally go to sleep around 8 all being equal, but baby is mucking around now until almost 9 and when I'm dealing on big girl's night she waits for me to be available 😬 a couple of times it's just not been happening and dad has had to take over my turn and she was absolutely gutted about it, really cried for me which breaks my heart. I know I need to toughen up, either on her or on the unhappy daddy/baby duo!

Playdates for 4yo aren't really a goer, she doesn't really like other kids and actually behaves worse when I try to get her to play with them while I do something else. This has paradoxically led to me being the Pied Piper of Hamlin in the playground after school, as all the kids being left to get on with it by their parents see me playing with her and want to join in - she then gets very cross 🤦‍♀️

I am beginning to wonder about possible ASD/ADD with 4yo, dad is I'm pretty certain somewhere on the spectrum although undiagnosed, and some of her funny little ways do strike a bit of a note with what I've read... But I don't want to be that parent ascribing their child's shortcomings to a medical condition rather than my own poor parenting skills 😆

Its hard at these ages isn't it, I've got a 2.5yo and 4m old and I've got loads of playgroups and toddler classes we go to, park every day or if its raining we go on a puddle walk, feed the ducks etc. Play dates for the 2yo at least once a week, soft play once a week. At home I never EVER do housework of any description during the day - if they nap simultaneously I use that time to prepare dinner and when the baby naps I focus on DD2 and give her loads of attention. Days out like farms etc are great as well although no more than once a week for us as I find they do need a good bit of downtime. Once dd2 has had a load of attention, been on a big walk or had a good play with friends etc, shes much less demanding and can entertain herself while I deal with dd3.

I think I'm lucky though in that dd3 is the most chilled baby ever and just happy to do whatever we're doing

The only time I was ever home for the full six weeks I have a 5 yo and a 5 month old. It was hard at the time but I remember it so fondly.

We did go and stay with family some of the time - not sure if you can do that at all?

Other days - I tried to make sure there some plan of action - usually meeting up with a friend or friends for a picnic. Some of the parks near us also have some kind of water feature - padding pool, a stream, sprinkler type things.

These activities were crucially either lunch time or the afternoon. We’d have a quiet morning in the house, where yes we’d be up early but baby would have a nap time, during which 5 yo would often watch a cartoon and I could nap too with her beside me - she was very good about it, and it gave me the energy to give everyone a nice afternoon.

I’m sure exh left me to do all the bedtimes and nights with both of them as he generally did. I got into a routine of bfing baby Ds while reading dd’s bedtime story.

Sorry cross posted about playing with other kids - that does make it much harder!

@ShinyGreenElephant some brilliant ideas thank you!! I think getting out of the house is key, on the one hand it's a pain re naps and feeds but we're all mostly a lot happier out and about. Did a big day trip last week though and that was mistake - too hot obvs but also just too intense for big girl and baby went almost all day without feeding at all which wasn't good for her temper or mine so big girl for frustrated that I kept stopping what we were doing to try and make baby feed, who would then start screaming about it. Logic of a 4yo - "she doesn't WANT it mummy!" Vs my adult awareness a 5mobaby can't go 6 hours without eating almost anything at all whatever said 5mo may think about it 😬

But getting out first thing to a park or similar, vegging and trying to follow baby's needs through the afternoon, then daddy take the biggun out for a runaround while I make dinner seems sensible. All sounds so simple im theory, what could possibly go wrong?? 😆

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I got into a routine of bfing baby Ds while reading dd’s bedtime story

See when I read that I just want to cry and feel sure I'm doing something badly wrong 😔 no way would this fly in our house - baby just will not feed nicely like that, she thrashes around, refuses the boob, tries to grab the bottle and just generally pisses about so every feed is incredibly absorbing and frustrating - I keep hoping it will get better as she gets bigger and if anything it's worse now she's stronger. As for big girl she'd be trying to climb on my lap, and if she couldn't would deteriorate to jumping on my back until I got hurt or angry and the whole thing would become a stressy argument 😔 so I just make particularly difficult kids? Or do I manage them craply? I should at very least be able to feed a baby, by one means or another, without issues - that's bloody basic! 😭

@Draineddraineddrained

Solidarity *@Treaclepie19*! Hope yours have a better day tomorrow (and mine!!)

Thank you! I really hope so. Dh is downstairs washing up while I lie with the baby in our bed to try and keep her asleep 😬 We will look back on all this fondly one day I'm sure...

I have a 3.5 y/o and find the best way to survive the holidays is to get really organised the night before. As much as I’d rather sit down for half an hour, I set up an activity he can gravitate too independently. I use a tuff tray but any plastic sheet/tub whatever would do & I change the activity on there every day or two.

So one day I filled it with waterabeads, toy pans and spoons/scoops and he spent a good few hours that day “cooking” separating the colours etc, another day I got some play snow & buried his toy cars in it for him to “rescue”

Another day coloured some rice and added scoops and some letters for him to copy “writing” in the sand.

There are tonnes of ideas on Pinterest etc, but he really loves having a different set up to explore and the time it buys me is invaluable!

Hi there. Exact same age gap right here with a distractible-feeding short-napping baby and a 4yo who needs cheerleading to dress, bum-wipe etc. We do have 3d/wk of preschool which is great, but for the other days I feel your pain!

I do echo what others say about occasionally giving formula instead of pumping. My first was bf (direct and expressed) and I was so glad to stop expressing and just ff for those feeds. This one is ff (wasn’t plan A, but it worked out like that) and honestly we use maybe one of those mini ready-made milks a week, formula can survive two hours out the fridge or 24 hours in it, see www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/formula-milk-questions/ so we only use the ready-mades on the rare occasions I’ll be out more than two hours with a feed due at the very end iyswim. In particular I wonder if your DP can do a bottle dream feed. Baby might resist him less if feeding while asleep and could help you get more continuous hours of sleep.

On naps I also have a lover of dark quiet rooms. I got a snoozeshade for the pram and that goes over for naps while we are out. And a cheap mini Bluetooth speaker for white noise (free app on my phone) which lives in the pram. Haven’t solved the shortness of the naps but really useful for making them happen while out at the park.

I also am less allergic to this one crying than I was to my first - I can’t pretend the above results in two constantly happy kids but we do ok overall!

@washablevelvet thank Christ it's not just me!! 😆 Thanks for the tips I'll give them a try. I have a really handy hands free pump I can wear in my bra (not the expensive one!!) but if I forget and bend over it l pours out everywhere 😬 can I ask where you get those safety guidelines for formula? All I can find is the very strict "make it up fresh and feed immediately" guidance via NHS and the manufacturers!

There's also a slight concern she may be CMPA - sister was and this one has the same mucusy poop and bad wind trouble, heavy duty cradle cap etc. GP was never any help with eldest so wouldn't be able to get the df formula on scrip I fear. Although tbf giving her a bottle of formula would be one way of figuring out for good and all if she is allergic. If she isn't I can get back to my cheese, which I'm sure would make everything much easier 😆

If you click the nhs link in my post and scroll down to ‘ What if I need to transport a made-up feed?’ the timings are there

Amazing thanks!

Just to reassure you that you're not doing something wrong (or that you're not alone if you are!): I also can't feed the baby while doing anything else, including talking/reading to DS1, or even while in a room where stuff is happening. I used to be able to, but since about 4mo he is so distractible that if I try to feed him that way he has a sip then turns his head to look at whatever else is going on. He then makes up for not feeding well during the day by feeding all night.

Tbh I just go into a different room to feed him and more often than not put the TV on for DS1. I refuse to feel guilty about it - I used to be so strict about screen time but then the first lockdown destroyed that anyway and his brother has to eat, so needs must.

[quote Draineddraineddrained]@wouldthatbeworse

I did use formula when she was tiny while I was getting my act together with pumping so not against it on principle, but I'd rather not use it if I don't have to - not least because I'm v worried about preparing/storing it "wrong" and making her ill! Can't afford the pre-made stuff we used when tiny long term, and the powdered stuff the making it up seems so faffy according to the packet - making up fresh each time, boiling a fresh kettle half an hour before you want to feed baby, feed whole bottle within one hour of starting or discard - the way my child eats I'd be throwing away A LOT. Breast milk may be a bit labour intensive to harvest but once I've got it I can be a lot more responsive and flexible with it. Not at all sure how people ever get out of the house if using formula, although obviously they manage somehow![/quote]
why dont you just bf whenever baby needs and ditch the pumping. I was far too lazy to do anything other than BF. pumping sees like a major effort. safe and well children at end of day during this stage is a job well done. do you have room for say an ikea childs tent thing for playing or a sprinkler the 4yo can run through. ice cream treats..swimming classes at local pool? helps you make sandwiches for lunch...impressive that you played with your child so much. walk with baby in sling to playground. That is a tough age difference.

The very nature of your post shows you love your kids. You’re doing a great job in challenging circumstances. My 5 yo is not a fan of kids in general but there are a couple she makes an exception for. We’ve had many awkward play dates.
If everyone is safe and offered food you’ve done your main job. Your job is not to keep everyone happy all day. Be kind to yourself.

@Dogvmarmot

why dont you just bf whenever baby needs and ditch the pumping. pumping sees like a major effort

It is a major effort 😆 but 9 times out of ten unless I'm lying down on the bed with her in a dark room, she won't bf whether she needs to or not. Arches away and screams. She's been like it since birth, getting her to feed from the boob at all has been a bit of a triumph. But not practical when I've got the other one too! I did feed the older one exclusively from the boob for 2.5 years so I know the tricks - but this one just is not at all fussed about eating! Will happily let herself starve if I don't play it her way. Pain in the bum but there it is!

@wouldthatbeworse

Thank you I needed to hear that ❤️ well today I'm feeling seriously rubbish (seem to be having all the most common vaccine side effects, ugh neuralgia everywhere!) so it's just going to have to be a forage and fend for themselves kind of day with lots of telly 😆

@Hardbackwriter good to know it's not just my mad baby 😆 it's funny she's such a good little thing otherwise (first was a holy terror for temper and not sleeping for her whole first year!) - just hates her milk for some reason! She's already doing a bit of BLW because she was snatching food fr our hands and plates so hopefully it will be less of a thing as time goes on and I can sneak it into her food/sippy cup.

You've all been lovely thanks xx

This was me last spring with 3. 5yo and 5mo.

Honestly it got so much easier when baby weaned. Mealtimes were more predictable and being that bit older helped sleep.

We were mid lockdown so couldn't go out aside from the once per day walk.

Get organised, accept more TV than normal,get out as much as possible. Arrange play dates and make it clear that you aren't playing. You may have developed a play dependence on you.

When you do have time to play with DD1 can you role play some sharing play skills maybe with a specific new toy? Thinking that she needs a boost with ideas so that playing with other kids becomes less weird for her.
Would she do a jigsaw with you and then gradually leave her for 1/2/3 minutes to carry on with it? I swear jigsaws were the only way I survived with my tribe of 5!