Putting my 8 year old dog to sleep....

[loubbyloob]

2 years ago we got Sam from the kennels.
He has been badly abused by his last owners (burns to his skin,matted fur etc )
After a few weeks he snarled at me and showed his teeth.
The week after he bit me (when I went to kiss boyfriend )
I think he thought I was going to hurt bf.
He is a nervous wreck,jumps at any noise,won't let us stroke him.
We have had 3 bites In two years and needed antibiotics.
We have no kids so there's no risk there.

He will only sleep in our bedroom.
Otherwise he howls all night long.
We bought him a single bed so he wouldn't jump on ours.
The last two weeks we go to bed at 11pm and he spends 4 hours just staring at snarling (there's nothing there)
Jumping as if someone is there and barking.
He won't settle.
We are shattered all the time.
He finally falls to sleep at around 3am

My boyfriend wants to put him to sleep.
I don't.
I want him to have a nice life.
I rang vets and booked in next week.
They recommended herbal calming tablets.
I've ordered them.

Any ideas why he is doing this ?
Is he seeing things?
Does he have PTSD?
He is so unpredictable and we can't stroke him or let him kiss us because he just flips.

We rehomed a dog with a lot of issues. We had sessions with a dog behaviourist which were recommended by the vets. We also had a full health check which ultimately highlighted a major medical reason which was making him act strangely - a liver shunt, luckily treatable by diet. Good luck, I appreciate how difficult it is x

A sudden change in behaviour like this - I'm assuming this hasn't been going on for 2 years - is exactly why you should book a visit to the vet and get a thorough check up.

The vet could also recommend a behaviourist for you if that's what's required.

He sounds very unhappy and could well be in constant pain. Why would you wait to see how much worse it could get before trying to do something to help him.

It's a hell of a leap to just decide to have the dog pts for behaviour that could be caused by many things that you've done nothing to address.

I'm a bit puzzled about rewarding him with treats 'to help the aggression' .

When exactly are you giving him the treats? If you're giving them at the wrong time you could well be reinforcing the aggression.

It might be helpful to get this thread moved to 'the dog house' as there are a lot of experienced dog owners and professionals on there who might be able to offer some helpful advice.

But definitely your first step should be to get him to a vet.

Because you can't pat or stroke the dog you may be missing some sore spot that's aggravating him.

When the dog gets examined all over by the vet you may find his behaviour is due to some illness or joint pain that keeps him awake, sore and anxious. The vet may easily pick it up . Listen to what the vet tells you, and at least try whatever treatment he offers.
Could be something like a change of diet, , an ear infection, bad teeth arthritis; all fixable.

Try an Adaptil collar for nervous dogs

YABU to jump straight to PTS before at least investigating any reasons for a change in behaviour!

I don't want to put him to sleep.
I want to try everything.
Hopefully the vet will find something that can be fixed.
He is fast asleep now.
Not barked all day.
It's literally between 11-3 am and in that bedroom.
Does anyone believe dogs can pick up on spirits and ghosts ?

We have never been able to stroke him because as soon as we go to put our hand out he assumes we are going to hit him and jumps back in fear.

No, no one believes dogs can see things that don't exist when perfectly rational shit like pain, dementia, weird curtain moving still exists

I honestly don't know how you are living like this. I would have no hesitation in PTS... but I know that will be very unpopular here.

So you adopted a dog that you couldn’t even touch, let along stroke, and now two years down the road you STILL can’t touch him, he’s aggressive and isn’t sleeping. And you’ve not tried ANYTHING so far?

I’m sorry, but you sound completely out of your depth and ill equipped to deal with a mature dog with such high behavioural needs.

This dog won’t let you even touch it, which means it doesn’t fully trust you, probably due to trauma in its past. You have no idea what it’s been through but at 8yrs old this dog may never be able to get over its fears completely. You are doing it NO favours allowing it to continue in this permanent state of anxiety, fear and possibly pain and confusion also. Get it to a vet to rule out physical causes and then get a professional in to advise on the behavioural stuff and MAYBE some improvements might be possible.

If not then call the dogs trust, I doubt the dog is re-homeable in its current state but at least it can live out the rest of its days in long term foster rather than be PTS. Although if it IS dementia then that’s probably the kindest option.

@user1477391263

I would PTS, but then I don't really get the point of a "pet" that just makes everyone's lives miserable, to be honest.

Oh this, so much this. Pets are supposed to be enjoyable and rewarding.

You need to see a vet to rule out any physical cause for the behaviour. There's lots of physical causes for behaviour issues - for instance, pain can cause dogs to not only be grouchy, but to bite if the human touches a painful area. A vet visit is also necessary for a referral to a behaviourist.

You do need to see a behaviourist - this is a behaviour issue not a training one. It's important to know that dog behaviour (and training) is a completely unregulated industry, so literally anyone can call themselves a behaviourist (or trainer).

For that reason, it's important to get someone who is properly qualified (NB not all qualifications are created equal - yes, this is a complete minefield) such as
apbc.org.uk/find-an-apbc-member/
www.asab.org/ccab-register

If you have good pet insurance, which cover behaviour, they will cover the costs.

Never, ever tell a dog (any dog!) off for growling or snarling. It's the last ditch warning they have before you get into a snap and / or bite. If you tell a dog off for growling or snarling, you tend to arrive at a situation where the dog doesn't give a warning anymore, but just goes straight for the bite.

You really shouldn't be considering putting this dog down when very little has been done to help it. I'm not saying that PTS for behaviour reasons is never appropriate - but only when you've reached the end of what can be achieved with the help of a properly qualified behaviourist, and the dog still doesn't have a reasonable quality of life.

If not then call the dogs trust, I doubt the dog is re-homeable in its current state but at least it can live out the rest of its days in long term foster rather than be PTS.

Dogs Trust are VERY picky when it comes to which dogs they take in as owner reliquishments. They will simply refuse to take this dog in. That's how it's possible for them to claim they 'never put a healthy dog down' - because they effectively outsource the euthanasia to other rescues that have a more open door policy (Battersea, RSPCA).

Have you tried sleeping in another room.

@DeathByWalkies

If not then call the dogs trust, I doubt the dog is re-homeable in its current state but at least it can live out the rest of its days in long term foster rather than be PTS.

Dogs Trust are VERY picky when it comes to which dogs they take in as owner reliquishments. They will simply refuse to take this dog in. That's how it's possible for them to claim they 'never put a healthy dog down' - because they effectively outsource the euthanasia to other rescues that have a more open door policy (Battersea, RSPCA).

Ah I had wondered that, good to know for definite.

Either way, as you said, nothing has been done so far, and there is lots that should and could be tried before PTS.

I guess it’s how they define ‘healthy dog’ - not just physically but also emotionally.

OP - how is the dog with other dogs? Just out of interest?

Speak to a dog behaviour specialist.
Ask get for help
The poor dog needs help urgently.
Please don't put him to sleep.
Try another rescue centre for help.
Don't give up on him.

@loubbyloob

I don't want to put him to sleep. I want to try everything. Hopefully the vet will find something that can be fixed. He is fast asleep now. Not barked all day. It's literally between 11-3 am and in that bedroom. Does anyone believe dogs can pick up on spirits and ghosts ?

No, but I do believe in trauma, pain, brain tumours and epilepsy, all of which can cause dogs to bark and snarl at thin air.

I’d be asking my vet to run a full lot of blood tests and possibly scans.

@Rinoachicken

I guess it’s how they define ‘healthy dog’ - not just physically but also emotionally.

Yes that's true - and some dogs do slip through the 'net' (usually via stray contracts, or sometimes dogs that are rehomed and are later returned having developed significant issues, that sort of thing).

Even Dogs Trust do put some dogs down for behaviour issues - emotional health is important too - but even kennel staff will say they're too slow / reluctant to do it on some occasions. I did hear of one dog that hospitalised a member of kennel staff with some nasty injuries and it took months for the PTS to be signed off. A few dogs stay in kennels permanently as sponsor dogs, but obviously they're few and far between.

Ultimately though, they're selective intake, and do their best to try and avoid taking in dogs that won't be easy to rehome. The OP's dog wouldn't get past the front door, and if taken to Battersea / RSPCA they'd be taken in but there would be a strong chance the dog would be PTS - the RSPCA in particular put down a lot of dogs for behaviour that could be rehabbed.

As others have said, a full vet check first. They check everything even thyroid and hormones if you mention you're having it for aggression. Also might be worth speaking to the vet about getting your dog medicated. Prozac or zanex or something stronger than a herbal pill. I was very reluctant to with our rescue dog, but actually it reduces anxiety to the point where you can start to work at getting them over the fear.

You've done a lovely thing taking such an abused dog in, and it's not easy. Good luck, I hope the vets are helpful

As PP have said, you need to get a behaviourist in, they could help. You say you want to do everything, but haven’t mentioned even considering this option.

Dogs don’t like kisses, not sure why you’d shove your face in a nervous dogs face anyway. You don’t sound like you understand canine behaviour enough, which is why you need a highly recommended behaviourist

Is this your first dog OP?

Do not kiss him as anxious dogs see this as a threat.
If he doesn’t like you stroking him then just don’t do it.
I would also try and knock him sleeping in your room on the head too. I’ve never met my rescue dogs sleep in my room as I’ve heard this is the worst thing you can do if there are any behaviour issues (not sure if it’s true or not).

You could faff about with behaviourists and calming tablets but actually he may be just a bit too much for you and would get on better with a fresh start.
I’d be tempted to phone somewhere like battersey dogs home and rescues that have behaviourists on site and explain the situation and hopefully they will take him in and try and rehabilitate him.

You sound like you love your dog but right now none of you have a very good life. So may be a fresh start is needed for everyone.

I’d be concerned that he’s in pain, especially if this behaviour has got worse the last few weeks.

One of my dogs refused to sleep all through the night until she was about 3. I had to make sure she was really tired by bedtime, mental games are just as important as walks for crazy dogs and it does work. A bit of trick training will get help him bond to you too, as it doesn’t sound like you have a strong bond at the moment.

Have you been to any sort of training with him? One of mine was a nightmare teenage dog so I took him to Rally O and Obedience. This helped so much and he’s now the best behaved dog I’ve got. He just wants to please.

What breed is he and what have you tried already?

@loubbyloob. it might sound silly, years ago now my old cat started crying during the night. We thought there was an issue with her, it turned out we had mice that had got into the garage and were running inside the walls up and down to and from the loft. could there be any mice in the loft that he can hear at night when it's quiet?