To be frustrated with representative democracy

[StrongLegs]

I'm getting really frustrated with the way things are being run by politicians and I wondered if it is just me?

Things that frustrate me:

• Failure to tax the big corporations like Facebook, Google and Amazon (I realise that this is a global problem).
• House prices that exclude young people from the housing market
• Climate change
• Underfunding of the NHS
• Underfunding of schools
• Erosion of workers right by zero hours contracts and companies like Uber.
• Westminster government ignoring the devolved nations, even during critical negotiations like Brexit and covid.
• Propping up banks when they were being so stupid in the 90s

but not propping up musicians during the covid period.

• I see greed everywhere, and it frustrates me terribly.

I've been voting to change all this kind of stuff for donkeys' years, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I just wondered if anybody had any thoughts? I'm happy to hear anything at all.

I don't plan to repond to comments as I know this is a huge and complex topic.

I just would be really interested to hear what others think.

YABU - representative democracy is just fine, and I feel that our politicans represent my views
YANBU - I understand your frustrations and agree either completely, or to some extent.

Please give details. I would really like to know what you think.

Good video for a start. Why is a banker health secretary and not a nurse or dr? Why should the idiotic public make political decisions on healthcare and not experts? Same for EU membership.

Crikey!

Plato's Republic sounds very impressive. I feel quite tired just thinking about it.

To be honest i dont think you need to read the republic, its all dialogues, just watch lectures and maybe get the 'short introduction to' for it.

FPTP is definitely a problem. Imagine the whole country votes Tory:Labour:Green in the proportion 40:35:25. But also imagine that every constituency does the same. The Tories win every one. And actually the 'best' way for the election FPTP vote to be representative of the population is if all the Labour voters live in 35% of constituencies together etc.

But then you have a population that is very politically segregated. And I'm not sure that would be a good healthy in terms of cohesion (I'd still want areas to have their own characters, but past a certain point it's not healthy).

I see that having an MP tied to a locality is useful. But I would like to see a set of country MPs selected from a party list to balance things out. They would make Parliament representative of the countrywide voting %s. Although what about independents?

You also asked about did we like the options we have to pick from. No, on the whole. However I I think it's important to recognise that it's not reasonable to expect a party aligned with what I think. I'm just me! There will always have to be compromise and we mustn't forget that. And those parties go through an awful lot to try and make themselves coalesce around a set of values. I'm more interested in the overarching values and culture of the party than specific polices. I find the focus on policies a bit frustrating - although they also matter, of course.

Why should the idiotic public make political decisions on healthcare

BrozTito when do the public make political decisions on healthcare - genuine question?

That video is really good.

It again highlights one of the things that is frustrating me at the moment. All my neighbours are paying £15k a year for private schooling, while we live literally 100 yards from an outstanding rated state school. The at the same time the government seems to be full of privately educated people.

This seems bonkers to me. If those private school bods want to live a separate life from the rest of us that's fine. I think they should not be running the state services if they have not ever been users of those services.

However, I now see the press starting to report that kids from private schools are no longer getting offers from the good universities, because those universities are trying to take kids from the state sector, which I think is wonderful progress. The parents of the privately educated kids seem to be getting quite worked up about it, which seems like good progress.

If we want to influence the current conservative government, how do you think we should do it?

I feel as though contacting my incumbent (Labour) MP doesn't have much effect. Do you think I should be writing to the Conservative folks in my constituency as well?

The public makes political healthcare decisions indirectly via voting. EU membership is a better example because that came down to direct democracy

YANBU, there are many frustrations with it. No system is perfect, but many of the corruptions and issues with it have festered and compounded for so long, it's hard to know where to start.

I think it's been interesting how there have been times that the House of Lords has ended up essentially protecting us from the whims of the Commons, most often by the Life Peers who are there because of an exceptional expertise in an area (I think, much like with hereditary peers, a cap on those who are there as a MP retirement should be brought in - there shouldn't be so many more of those compared to other Life Peers).

I think a blended system with those knowledgeable in politics and policy alongside area experts in medicine or education has benefits, but there would still need to be vigilance to the corruption too common in many political systems.

One of the issues with Plato's argument is that the 'training' so often used for politician these days, even through lower offices, are too entrenched in political life (and within the UK and US, too entrenched in the divisive styles) that continue the cycle of problems from the bottom up. I think the 'training' for it has become too corrupted and needs some reconsideration.

I've spent most of my adult life with no right to vote - immigrating at 17 made that difficult, I actually only got the right to vote in my birth country at 34 and here earlier this year. There are many other ways to get involved, but there was very much a disconnect even when able to talk to my MP (who went from very responsive to radio silence when Labour fell out of power) and I see that disconnect in others I think in part because politics is treated so combatively that 'I'm not interested in politics' more often comes across as 'I'm not interested in arguing. I think the disconnect makes it even easier for the corruption to fester as there is such an antagonistic attitude of our governments towards each other which extends largely towards us, the people, as well.

Id encourage people to set up local radical citizens council who fund raise and work entirely seperately from government,political parties or unions and work on very visible loccal issues like housing and better wages rather than abstract bullshit like debating world peace or cultural apropriation

@BrozTito

The public makes political healthcare decisions indirectly via voting. EU membership is a better example because that came down to direct democracy

Thank you for answering my question.

@StrongLegs

If we want to influence the current conservative government, how do you think we should do it?

I feel as though contacting my incumbent (Labour) MP doesn't have much effect. Do you think I should be writing to the Conservative folks in my constituency as well?

Honestly?

With how things are working and how they stand, you'd be better off joining the Conservative party itself rather than bothering with the opposition or trying to write to them.

This government have such a sizeable majority and are only really bothered about pleasing their own supporters. You are more likely to have influence within the Conservative party itself rather than outside it.

@BrozTito

Id encourage people to set up local radical citizens council who fund raise and work entirely seperately from government,political parties or unions and work on very visible loccal issues like housing and better wages rather than abstract bullshit like debating world peace or cultural apropriation

Also this type of thing.

You will get more done in practical terms.

Representative democracy is not the issue, it’s the stupid first past the post system that makes it hard to get rid of a party in power. Funnily enough opposing parties will usually say they will get rid of it if they win the election and suddenly go all quiet because it means they can stay in power once they have the majority!

@RedToothBrush this is what I have been wondering recently.

It seems to me that my vote in general elections has little effect, compared with the votes of the conservative membership when they vote internally on who will be the next leader of the Conservative party

It makes me wonder whether we all ought to be joining the conservative party just to buy ourselves some say in who will be next prime minister and perhaps a bit of say in what the policies will be.

I mean if we all joined the Conservative Party en masse, could we influence policies more effectively that way, before they even got as far as a FPTP vote in the usual general election?

Anyone who goes into politics in any party is either brave or has a thick skin.
Every single thing they have done from birth will be gone through with a fine tooth comb and any misdemeanours will be gleefully exposed.
Stuff will be made up and rumours spread. Who cares if it’s not true.
There will be vicious personal attacks made on social media.
Their children won’t be exempt from insults and attacks.

Who would want this?

Strong Legs that's what happened Ith Labour and Corbyn

@chunderwunder

I'm not sure representative democracy is the problem although FPTP is an issue.

I think it's more that we have a bunch of Tory wankers in government.

As opposed to the Labour wankers who don't even know what a woman is?

They'll never get my vote again just for that

@StrongLegs

I mean if we all joined the Conservative Party en masse, could we influence policies more effectively that way, before they even got as far as a FPTP vote in the usual general election?

Seriously, you would join Nepotism Central rather than Make Votes Matter, and be in with a chance of real, meaningful reform?

I give up.

Tell me more about Make Votes Matter @PartridgeFeather.

It sounds interesting.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

Have a read. They explain PR very well.

Yes that does seem good. Being able to vote and feel that my vote would definitely count, is a very attractive option.

Could I ask one question about it?

Does that mean that if I voted Green, for example, then I would get an unspecified Green MP to represent me?

I only wonder, because with the Brexit debates, that was one time when I did feel that I would like to be able to vote for a specific individual, irrespective of part affiliation. I felt that Dominic Grieve was a really sensible guy, for example, even though normally wouldn't never go near the Tories in a million years.

In all other cases, I would usually vote on the manifesto promises of the national party, in which cases PR does sound good.