To be frustrated with representative democracy

[StrongLegs]

I'm getting really frustrated with the way things are being run by politicians and I wondered if it is just me?

Things that frustrate me:

• Failure to tax the big corporations like Facebook, Google and Amazon (I realise that this is a global problem).
• House prices that exclude young people from the housing market
• Climate change
• Underfunding of the NHS
• Underfunding of schools
• Erosion of workers right by zero hours contracts and companies like Uber.
• Westminster government ignoring the devolved nations, even during critical negotiations like Brexit and covid.
• Propping up banks when they were being so stupid in the 90s

but not propping up musicians during the covid period.

• I see greed everywhere, and it frustrates me terribly.

I've been voting to change all this kind of stuff for donkeys' years, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I just wondered if anybody had any thoughts? I'm happy to hear anything at all.

I don't plan to repond to comments as I know this is a huge and complex topic.

I just would be really interested to hear what others think.

YABU - representative democracy is just fine, and I feel that our politicans represent my views
YANBU - I understand your frustrations and agree either completely, or to some extent.

Please give details. I would really like to know what you think.

mustlovegin Thu 22-Jul-21 17:14:58
You have to accept the views of the majority. Tough if they don't agree with your own

I'm trying to think when a UK Government last received a majority of votes (probably back before WW2). Even the current gang have an 80 seat majority after getting less than 44% of the votes.

I think first past the post is the largest issue.

@PurplePi

OP - Are you Dominic Cummings?

LOL! Thank goodness, no. That would hard work, I think.

It's really interesting that everyone is raising FPTP. This is the one thing that I've genuinely never considered. My DH is always saying that's what we need.

I thought that some people were against it because it didn't produce an outright majority, but I can kind of see how that could be good too

Although the SNP seem to manage fine at getting a majority with PR, if I understand that correctly.

Is anybody ever going to bring in PR though? I thought we had a referendum and it was turned down.

People think that minority or hung parliaments are weak. But that's because they're wedded to adversarial style politics. A collaboration works differently.

Personally I'd like to try sortition. I think the last people you want in government are those who want the job.

The PR referendum was very lacklustre. No option was explained well and we were bombarded with complicated systems, none of which were truly PR.

The Tories and Labour are both opposed because FPTP suits them. Therefore there was little appetite or enthusiasm for promoting it.

Before the 2015 election there was an interesting tool.you could use to match your ideology and views to a manifesto. It was pretty sophisticated. It asked a large number of questions on all sorts of policy areas and then gave you your best fit based on.your responses.

My friend did it and was really shocked to see who best matched her views and point blank refused to change her vote even though it was demonstrably obvious that her chosen party wouldn't fit her ideology.

I agree with all of your points, but I don't think representative democracy is to blame. It's the fact that we don't have a representative democracy. FPTP I agree is a problem, but also the erosion of councils and local democracy. There's a more subtle problem, one that's been steadily increasing as all the points you mention got worse: the replacement of a culture favouring discipline, restraint, equality before law, with one based on the ownership of wealth and the loudest voices.

In what way are we still a representative democracy? Can you have such a thing in a nation of such a huge size and variety?

People might be interested in this - The Electoral Reform Society

I read every manifesto carefully before a GE. I regularly email my local MPs and carefully consider the responses of each one (those who bother to reply, that is!)

One thing I have to say though, is it has been many years since I voted for a party I was confident in. In the last two elections I voted tactically against the party I felt would do the most damage (On both occasions I voted against Labour as I suspect many did).

I think if people were honest, they would agree that the main parties have a few things in their manifesto they agree with. You really have to find the one who best represents you if you can!

Haven't rtft so don't know if others have said similar but was instantly triggered by "representative democracy", so yanbu at all if you're fed up with the Tory shitfest.

But yabvvvu if you really think this is a representative democracy. Looks far more like a shambolic mess that doesn't represent anyone apart from the people on its payroll, Boris's mates and despotic girlfriend and furious ex-Labour voters with nobody else to vote for.

Starmer is Tory Lite and the Labour party is deader than Python's parrot.

We're basically watching a political car crash that we allowed to happen.

22 million votes down the toilet at the last election, including mine. They literally counted for nothing.

Completely new voting system required.

Well we got given direct democracy in 2016 and 48% of the country haven't stopped moaning about it since.

@PickUpAPepper

"There's a more subtle problem, one that's been steadily increasing as all the points you mention got worse: the replacement of a culture favouring discipline, restraint, equality before law, with one based on the ownership of wealth and the loudest voices."

This is what I feel exactly.

@chunderwunder Thanks so much for explaining all this. I've really so much needed to understand all this for a long time, and there was no one to give a clear explanation. You wouldn't think of starting a blog or something would you?

We need PR so we can vote for what we want not for the least worst option. Both major parties are in the pockets of big business - not so with Corbyn but look what the media did to him. Starmer got lots of money from big business for his campaign. The media is also a problem as they manipulate public opinion and are controlled and funded by a very small group of billionaires.

The solution- I don't know but PR would help. Proper regulation of the press is also needed. I fear the press is too powerful to allow either of those changes and maybe I had it right in my teen years when I thought revolution was the only answer!

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

FPTP is a problem. I would like PR so all groups are represented although God knows who would be there for woman or the wc with the crap that is all our political parties just now

This ^ FPTP

All I can say is that, more and more these days, I find myself voting for the least worst option. I didn't want to vote for the lib dems or Corbyn and didn't want to waste my vote, so the Conservatives it was.

I'm obviously not delighted with how that turned out, but not beating myself up too much either. I don't think Corbyn and his momentum crowd would have been any better overall with covid and think they would have been much worse with the vaccines.

Having said all that I loathe BJ and the vast majority of the people he is surrounded by. I've never understood why he was ever rated and the quality of all our politicians seems woefully low. All I want is someone half way decent to lead the country. Seems like that's too much to ask for. I'll watch and see what Labour get up to in the next few months/years.

Completely new voting system required

I would argue that we need completely new politicians.

@knittingaddict

All I can say is that, more and more these days, I find myself voting for the least worst option. I didn't want to vote for the lib dems or Corbyn and didn't want to waste my vote, so the Conservatives it was.

I'm obviously not delighted with how that turned out, but not beating myself up too much either. I don't think Corbyn and his momentum crowd would have been any better overall with covid and think they would have been much worse with the vaccines.

Having said all that I loathe BJ and the vast majority of the people he is surrounded by. I've never understood why he was ever rated and the quality of all our politicians seems woefully low. All I want is someone half way decent to lead the country. Seems like that's too much to ask for. I'll watch and see what Labour get up to in the next few months/years.

This is a really helpful perspective. Would it be okay to ask what it was specifically about the LibDems and Labour that you didn't like, and what it was that you hoped to get from the Conservatives?

I think there is huge inter generational inequality & just general inequality which no party wants to address.

Real change is painful in the short term. The benefits of some major reforms could take years, if not decades to be realised. But democratic governments think in terms of four to five year election cycles.

I think this is a big part of the problem.

Lib dems -

1/ lied about student fees and my daughter was one of those affected.

2/ I live in a lib dem area and they seem to be doing a good job of destroying the living of those independant shops in the city centre. The shops that help make it what it is. You would be amazed if I told you what city. Spending money on ridiculous schemes that make no sense and back tracking later, therefore wasting residents money. I could go on and on.

Labour -

loathed Corbyn and the momentum bully boys. Too left wing for me, as I'm fairly centrist in my politics. I thought they would be incompetant.

Conservatives -

like I said, least worst at the time. I expected nothing of them and got what I expected. Maybe worst than I expected, given the pandemic.

Thanks @knittingaddict yes that makes sense. Thank you for explaining.

@fingersfy this inter-generational inequality is what I see too. A friend of mine, who is 88 years old this year, said to me recently "You're going to need to have a revolution."

I kind of agree with him, but I just don't know where we're going to find the energy to do it.

@fingersfy - agreed.

I completely see what everyone means about FPTP, but I don't see that ever going away, and I don't see the quality of our political parties improving. I think we do need something better though. I wonder what the right thing is to do?

I do agree that the Westminster fptp system doesn't fit modern society.

I much prefer that partial PR system in the Scottish parliament.

But people had the chance to vote for PR in 2010/11? And didn't!

@StrongLegs I don't think there are the numbers for a revolution, median age is already 40!