NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@Kittyswhiskers

And yes our pity party is factually incorrect, obviously you would know more than the nurses who actually do the job 🙄

I've shown you it is incorrect! I've shown you job adverts for clinically based nurse practitioners on 45k 🙄. Again, not all staff but there are possibilities, you mustn't be so negative.

The nhs is a great organisation to work for, sick pay, excellent holiday allowance, pensions.

And WE have shown you that there are very very few jobs that nurses can do at band 7 or above - if we wanted to. If you knew even a shred about hospitals you’d know that and 7 and above nurses are pulled to do managerial/non clinical/doctors roles more than actual nursing. But clearly you know more than me with my 15+ years of nursing experience. You are really, really embarrassing yourself with your replies. And negative? If I was negative I’d have left long ago. Despite the shit we deal with we still show up and do it with a smile for our patients.

Oh and you didn’t say, what was it you did for work again?

'that there are very very few jobs that nurses can do at band 7'

I posted a link to a load of ANP posts?

I'm sorry you're so stressed but a band 6 with 15 years experience and now a 3% payrise isn't on the breadline so honestly try not to be so angry and yes, try a bit of positivity!

I know you did, and thanks! However, for most of ANP posts in my trust you would need a masters degree plus lots of additional training and even then you have to wait for a job to come up in your own specialty.. I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand about that 🤣 I couldn’t waltz into an ANP interview and blag it? Honestly, I’m not stressed, not at all. I think the replies on here are hilariously ignorant and what astounds me is that every single person who works for the nhs says the same thing and yet no one outside of the nhs is understanding although of course you ‘understand the pressures’ of keeping 30+ patients alive per shift with unsafe staffing levels. I assure you I’m not angry, nor am I having a pity party (factually incorrect or otherwise). Tell me, since you understand the pressures of doing lifesaving clinical work, what was it you did/do for a job?

'However, for most of ANP posts in my trust you would need a masters degree plus lots of additional training '

Oh sorry yes I thought that would be obvious! you need to do training and degrees etc that really should go without saying however there is the potential to earn 45k and still be clinically based. If you don't want to, then stay ward based.

Actually don’t bother replying - you know sooo many people in the nhs you obviously know way more than me and the other nhs employees on this thread. Really don’t care what you have to say tbh - you’ve already made yourself look a bit daft with your replies

'Really don’t care what you have to say tbh - you’ve already made yourself look a bit daft with your replies'

Well for someone who doesn't care what I have to say you have been asking me the same questions over and over .

I haven't made myself look 'daft' I've pointed out the inconvenient truth.

@JaniieJones While those jobs do exist, there are very few of them. Saying that they exist doesn't change the fact that we need to make ward-based, bands 4-6 (and junior doctors, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, etc!) posts sufficiently attractive to recruit and retain staff. Otherwise, who's going to be on the wards day to day?

During clap for carers, people said we were heroes. But now that there's money involved, we're not really seen to be worth that much after all. I have had colleagues - friends - die from this pandemic, I've seen more death in the past 18 months than in the rest of my career, I think. We stepped up for the public when we were needed, at huge cost to ourselves. Is it really too much to ask for a pay rise that might cover our parking fees?

Social care also needs to be better paid. My sister in law works for the minimal wage in a job she enjoys

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57752914.amp

@SaltySheepdog I agree.

I work in the states in healthcare. We got zero raise last year due to Covid, they said.

This year, we will get a raise but nobody knows how much yet. I'm thinking we'll be lucky to get 2%. Fair would be at least 5%, plus tons of non-existent hazard pay.

We are also being run ragged and this weekend we were severely understaffed and just inundated with lab tests (I work in a hospital lab) and none of us got a break or a meal break. We all just took turns wolfing down a sandwich in ten minutes and returning to chaos.

We keep telling management that we need more staff but it seems nothing gets through to them. They express sympathy, but say it's out of their hands.

They rely on everyone to keep picking up extra hours but the small incentives they give barely make up for the distress we're all under almost constantly.

We can punch "no meal deduction" so at least we'll get paid for the half hour we normally don't get paid for sitting and eating a meal. Punching no lunch is Frowned Upon but there was just no way any of us could go this weekend. It was horrible.

We're a "Catholic" health care system so they try to make it like we're all supposed to sacrifice and help each other out because we're "doing the work of Christ".......

I would like huge monetary compensation if they're not going to hire more staff.

Nobody wants to pick up hours anymore because we're all getting burnt out.

Covid tests up the wazoo again from the emergency department because the pandemic is surging again.

During this whole pandemic, they have not authorized any additional staff for us in the lab.

Nursing is always very stressed too and it seems like they have way more patients each than would seem safe.

So I'm with you, OP.

[quote Sanguinesuzy]@Dreamstate don't get your point. If we worked 8 hour shifts we'd just end up working more shifts a week, the volume of work wouldn't change, in fact shifts would be worse because we don't have the staff to cover 3 shifts a day. The whole idea of 12 1/2 hour shifts was to reduce staffing levels. 1 nurse rather than 3 (early, late, night shift). Again non nhs staff rocking up with no idea [/quote]
Urgh stop trying to avoid the question. Forget about staffing levels say it was all possible and doable enough people to do the work

My point is simple...would you stop moaning if you did 8hr days for the same pay? Or do you still think you deserve more.....

If they'd have been sent into battle against chemical warfare, this would have been beyond doubt.

This was worse!

ALL OUT!

@JaniieJones

What on earth makes you think you are qualified to decide that a 3% pay rise is enough for nurse’s, just because you say so?

It doesn’t even cover two years inflation.

The 8 hours vs 12 hours makes no difference either way on both sides of the argument working 12.5 hour shifts a to justify needing more wage isn’t the right debate because as although yes they work those shifts they don’t work them 5 days a week they work the same as many full time workers just over less days. The other side you can’t say oh well cut their shifts to 8 hours then their pay is correct because again they would be working normal full time hours just over 5 days instead of 3.

Overall I agree they should get a pay rise.

Most people agree that if we could give more than 3% we would.

I don't think anyone disagrees that NHS staff have a heck of a time.

However, because of covid and international price hikes on some raw materials (not Brexit related, think natural disasters), we are heading towards financial catastrophe. I'm not sure many are aware yet.

Next year we will all be talking about interest rates and inflation. I very much doubt the Gov will be able to give 3% then.

'What on earth makes you think you are qualified to decide that a 3% pay rise is enough for nurse’s, just because you say so?'

Well it's my opinion! It's a chat forum y'see and that is what we do debate and share opinions.

The nhs offers its staff opportunities and good sick pay, holiday pay and pensions. The 3% pay rise is deserved but enough.

Not quite sure what is so offensive about saying you can become a higher grade and retain a clinical role if you do further studies etc. Ward nurses aren't band 8s but there is the scope to further your career and stay clinical is all I've said. The insults and attacks are unpleasant and unnecessary. Debate the points and disagree but try to do so intelligently.

@Facesandspaces26

The 8 hours vs 12 hours makes no difference either way on both sides of the argument working 12.5 hour shifts a to justify needing more wage isn’t the right debate because as although yes they work those shifts they don’t work them 5 days a week they work the same as many full time workers just over less days. The other side you can’t say oh well cut their shifts to 8 hours then their pay is correct because again they would be working normal full time hours just over 5 days instead of 3.

Overall I agree they should get a pay rise.

Well actually it does matter, since most of the previous posters and op claim that they work too hard because you know they have to do 12hr shifts. So yes the length of their shift is one reason why they are saying they deserve more money.

Now you clarify that its 12hr shifts over 3 days its even more stark that their complaint they work hard because they do longer shifts is a moot point as they don't work 5 days a week.

I think this summarises it:

General public: well all clap and put rainbows in the window
Boris: thanks for risking your lives to save everyone else’s! Here’s 3p for every £1 you earn.
Some of mumsnet: those greedy bastards need to be more AMBITIOUS if they want band 8 pay!!!

🙄🤣

@JaniieJones

'What on earth makes you think you are qualified to decide that a 3% pay rise is enough for nurse’s, just because you say so?'

Well it's my opinion! It's a chat forum y'see and that is what we do debate and share opinions.

The nhs offers its staff opportunities and good sick pay, holiday pay and pensions. The 3% pay rise is deserved but enough.

Not quite sure what is so offensive about saying you can become a higher grade and retain a clinical role if you do further studies etc. Ward nurses aren't band 8s but there is the scope to further your career and stay clinical is all I've said. The insults and attacks are unpleasant and unnecessary. Debate the points and disagree but try to do so intelligently.

Yes of course people can obtain further qualifications and earn more money, but that doesn't mean that lower bands not being paid enough to retain a reasonably sized workforce changes. There are also a lot of factors that limit the band someone reaches.

Not everyone has the time to study alongside working, if you have caring responsibilities etc a masters whilst doing 37+ hours a week is not doable. That means the pool of people who can reach that band is smaller, and there's an element of privilege to it.

Some roles are capped at certain grades, they are not stepping stones to higher bands, but fulfilling and important jobs in their own rights. I would rather have nurses passionate about it staying in post in that area rather than leaving to pay the bills.

You keep saying ah you can stay clinical, but there is always a higher level of management tasks as you progress, some people don't want that and that's fair enough, they want to fully do actual nursing.

There are a limited number of posts as the bands go up, there aren't enough for everyone to progress nicely up, what do you suggest in that case? More band 7s onwards? In that case may as well just pay a fairer wage to everyone.

Well actually it does matter, since most of the previous posters and op claim that they work too hard because you know they have to do 12hr shifts. So yes the length of their shift is one reason why they are saying they deserve more money.

You don't really have a life at all for those 3 days, not if you want to eat, wash yourself and sleep in between work, and unless you live around the corner, travel time. From experience (in care not nursing) your 1st day off is spent recovering, many on this thread have described how they don't get breaks to eat etc, that takes its toll over 3 consecutive days.
It speaks more to the conditions they're working under than the pay. It would make no difference to take home pay if the same rate was paid and the same hours worked but if shifts were shorter staff would be better rested and that would lead to less stress, more flexibility in covering sickness and holiday rather than just having to go short staffed and hopefully then, better retention.
But if you're expecting people to work in the way they currently are, then yes, they need better financial renumeration for that.

Now you clarify that its 12hr shifts over 3 days its even more stark that their complaint they work hard because they do longer shifts is a moot point as they don't work 5 days a week.

Last time I checked there were 7 days in a week and 5+3 =8🤷

Working a 12 hour day is completely different to working an 8 hour one, those 4 hours make a difference, do you do 12 hours X3 days in a row in your job?