NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

Sorry misquoted I meant grernlakes apologies blossomtoes

Blood hell greenlakes

So true, unless you’ve worked in the nhs you really have no idea and therefore your comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt I guess. It’s very frustrating that the general public have this perception and it’s a bit of a kick in the teeth with how hard slog it is but hey ho.

That's why we need to fight, who cares if the general public hate us. At the end of the day, when the time comes that my mum (now in her 70s) starts needing hospital treatment, I want to know that she is going to be cared for on a well staffed ward with happy, rested nurses and HCAs who feel valued and appreciated, and treated by happy, rested medics with proper support who don't have to cover entire hospitals. And I want the same for my own patients and their families.

Then your gripe of the number of hours your working, not having enough breaks etc. Well rested staff doesn't automatically mean pay me more does it. Paying you more doesn't give you more rest!

Thats the point lots of posters are making. Payijg people more doesn't fix the issue. You could be paid £80k and you'd still feel under appreciated, over worked

@Dreamstate

Then your gripe of the number of hours your working, not having enough breaks etc. Well rested staff doesn't automatically mean pay me more does it. Paying you more doesn't give you more rest!

Thats the point lots of posters are making. Payijg people more doesn't fix the issue. You could be paid £80k and you'd still feel under appreciated, over worked

But it's less tempting to leave if you can get a comparative wage elsewhere doing a lot less and with less responsibility and stress. It won't fix working conditions and they should also be invested in, but I'm not sure why so many fail to grasp the basic concept of staff retention.

More tempting to leave even

But when I can earn a similar wage doing a less stressful job where is my incentive to stay?
Where is the incentive for new nurses to come and work on a ward when they can be paid the same elsewhere doing much less physical and mentally stressful work?!

Actually dreamstate if you read correctly you would see most of us want the system fixed. If you broke down our role into its component parts you couldn't afford to pay us all. It is that simple, makes us out to be money grabbing.

Adequate pay is a key component of staff recruitment and retention. The inability of the government and society to recognise this is part of why healthcare, education, etc are struggling to attract staff and struggling to keep the staff already working there.

Also, @Dreamstate, accusing us of "griping" is rather insulting. When was the last time you worked a 13 hour shift in an acute medical ward? Or had a 24 hour on-call shift with responsibilities in 3 different hospitals?

Wages that reflect our skillset and time invested aren't an unreasonable expectation. If the health service can't attract and keep skilled professionals, then the public suffers.

Paying staff appropriately is one of the first steps towards addressing the problems in the NHS.
I have another 30 years of work ahead if me. Young enough to retrain. I have a first class degree and post grad qualifications. I have years of experience and a lot of very valuable transferable skills. As it is, I run out of money and am in my overdraft my the 14th every month as a single parent. And yet I spend my working hours resuscitating and caring for sick babies on ventilators.
I'm not stupid. I could do well in another sector.
Just a shame to throw away my nursing dreams, my nursing skills and experience.

Right ao if we recruited more people to break your shifts up to be more normal 8hr shifts for the same pay, would you be complaining then? Because whats coming across is your complaint is the number of hours your doing.

So let's see then same pay but shifts are 8hrs...would you be happy then?

The idea that pay levels are somehow detached from staff retention is bizarre - fair pay for work done will clearly encourage nurses to stay, thus reducing the understaffing, and will also help staff feel appreciated (or at least less taken advantage of).

@Dreamstate

Right ao if we recruited more people to break your shifts up to be more normal 8hr shifts for the same pay, would you be complaining then? Because whats coming across is your complaint is the number of hours your doing.

So let's see then same pay but shifts are 8hrs...would you be happy then?

How are you going to do that then? Knit a few? There's no money for extra staff, and they pretty much dont exist anyway.

@Stompythedinosaur

Its amazing how many people dont get it!

Pay scale is dependent on job and some are paid well and others not to. It covers a huge range of jobs and skills from low skilled to highly skilled and experienced.

Nursing can vary dependant on band:

Band 4 the 1st pay point £22,549 £11.53 £9.06 £0.20
Band 4 the 2nd and final pay point £24,882 £12.73 £9.80 £0.23
Band 5 the 1st pay point £25,654 £13.12 £10.05 £0.23
Band 5 the 2nd pay point £27,779 £14.21 £10.48 £0.24
Band 5 the 3rd and final pay point £31,533 £16.13 £11.64 £0.28
Band 6 the 1st pay point £32,306 £16.52 £11.88 £0.28
Band 6 the 2nd pay point £34,171 £17.48 £12.46 £0.30
Band 6 the 3rd and final pay point £39,027 £19.96 £13.96 £0.34
Band 7 the 1st pay point £40,057 £20.49 £14.28 £0.35
Band 7 the 2nd pay point £42,121 £21.55 £14.92 £0.37
Band 7 the 3rd and final pay point £45,838 £23.45 £16.07 £0.40
Band 8A the 1st pay point £47,126 £24.11 £16.47 £0.41
Band 8A the 2nd and final pay point £53,239 £27.23 £18.20 £0.36
Band 8B the 1st pay point £54,763 £28.01 £18.59 £0.37
Band 8B the 2nd and final pay point £63,861 £32.67 £20.94 £0.43
Band 8C the 1st pay point £65,664 £33.59 £21.41 £0.45
Band 8C the 2nd and final pay point £75,874 £38.81 £23.81 £0.50
Band 8D the 1st pay point £78,191 £40.00 £24.40 £0.52
Band 8D the 2nd and final pay point £90,387 £46.23 £27.51 £0.60
Band 9 the 1st pay point £93,734 £47.95 £28.37 £0.62
Band 9 the 2nd and final pay point £108,075 £55.28 £32.03 £0.72

So depends whether you are cleaning or running the ward, pretty much like any job with vastly different skills sets.

Working a long shift in a ward can be pretty stressful compared to sitting at home working on a pc. Good pension, sick pay etc but much longer working patterns than many careers and in some roles (not all) more stress.

@Dreamstate where are you going to find these additional staff though?

An example: For someone to be qualified as a medical consultant, they have to spend at least 5 years at university doing a medical degree, 2 years as a foundation trainee, and then usually at least 6 or 7 years training in a specialty. That's not including any additional training or opportunities that the person might want or need to do.

Even if we started training those extra staff now, they won't be ready to practise independently for years. And where's the incentive for people to undertake the training and take on that amount of responsibility without reasonable working conditions and pay? If someone can get a better salary and reasonable working conditions elsewhere, where's the incentive for them to work in the NHS?

The issue being discussed here is being paid fairly for the work we do - without that, the people already working in the NHS are more likely to leave, and the people we need to recruit won't want to work in the NHS.

I think what some NHS staff don’t seem to get is that very few organisations have ideal staffing levels or budgets.

It is therefore imperative on the staff who are present to make the best of the situation, adapt and thrive.

DD really struggled initially with the reduction in staffing at her cafe. But she is now really enjoying the additional responsibility and fast paced environment.

@TheTallOakTrees

Pay scale is dependent on job and some are paid well and others not to. It covers a huge range of jobs and skills from low skilled to highly skilled and experienced.

Nursing can vary dependant on band:

Band 4 the 1st pay point £22,549 £11.53 £9.06 £0.20
Band 4 the 2nd and final pay point £24,882 £12.73 £9.80 £0.23
Band 5 the 1st pay point £25,654 £13.12 £10.05 £0.23
Band 5 the 2nd pay point £27,779 £14.21 £10.48 £0.24
Band 5 the 3rd and final pay point £31,533 £16.13 £11.64 £0.28
Band 6 the 1st pay point £32,306 £16.52 £11.88 £0.28
Band 6 the 2nd pay point £34,171 £17.48 £12.46 £0.30
Band 6 the 3rd and final pay point £39,027 £19.96 £13.96 £0.34
Band 7 the 1st pay point £40,057 £20.49 £14.28 £0.35
Band 7 the 2nd pay point £42,121 £21.55 £14.92 £0.37
Band 7 the 3rd and final pay point £45,838 £23.45 £16.07 £0.40
Band 8A the 1st pay point £47,126 £24.11 £16.47 £0.41
Band 8A the 2nd and final pay point £53,239 £27.23 £18.20 £0.36
Band 8B the 1st pay point £54,763 £28.01 £18.59 £0.37
Band 8B the 2nd and final pay point £63,861 £32.67 £20.94 £0.43
Band 8C the 1st pay point £65,664 £33.59 £21.41 £0.45
Band 8C the 2nd and final pay point £75,874 £38.81 £23.81 £0.50
Band 8D the 1st pay point £78,191 £40.00 £24.40 £0.52
Band 8D the 2nd and final pay point £90,387 £46.23 £27.51 £0.60
Band 9 the 1st pay point £93,734 £47.95 £28.37 £0.62
Band 9 the 2nd and final pay point £108,075 £55.28 £32.03 £0.72

So depends whether you are cleaning or running the ward, pretty much like any job with vastly different skills sets.

Just to point out for those bands with only 2 pay points, it takes 5-6 years to move between them.

From the pay scale posted, it seems like nurses can end up earning £108,000!

So the opportunities are there to earn more for those who are ambitious and wanting to push themselves.

@GreenLakes 😳🤣 I don’t know if you’re joking now first comparing us to staff in a cafe who need to adapt and manage them saying we can earn 100k if only we’re ambitious and push ourselves enough lol

And if you can go on nhs jobs and find me a band 9 nursing position lemme know 👍🏻

@GreenLakes

From the pay scale posted, it seems like nurses can end up earning £108,000!

So the opportunities are there to earn more for those who are ambitious and wanting to push themselves

Are you taking the piss? Do you know anything, anything at all about nursing or you either jyst ignorant or on the wind up? Most nurses will never be higher than a Band 6, not because of lack of ambition but the higher the bands the more management the job is. My service manager us an 8a and just deals with staff problems, day in day out. To me thats nor why I became a nurse.

@GreenLakes

I think what some NHS staff don’t seem to get is that very few organisations have ideal staffing levels or budgets.

It is therefore imperative on the staff who are present to make the best of the situation, adapt and thrive.

DD really struggled initially with the reduction in staffing at her cafe. But she is now really enjoying the additional responsibility and fast paced environment.

People’s lives versus coffee and cake hmmmm…. Not entirely sure about that comparison!