NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

3% is fair for this year. It’s way more than most will get in either private sector or the remaining public sector. Anyone seen the news today that the cost of covid will be hitting taxpayers for decades?

Its staffing levels and working conditions that need to be sorted out. Proper breaks and working hours.

Perhaps the NHS should be brought in line with the private sector, pensions, holidays, sick policy, breaks, working hours and staffing levels all overhauled to match private sector.

@Onandoff

People saying NHS staff shouldn’t get pay increases because of uncaring treatment they received are kind of missing a point. Often the reason care is poor or absent is because staff are chronically overworked and poorly valued. If you don’t improve their pay (therefore attracting high quality people) and conditions it will only get worse. We have terrible trouble retaining experienced professional staff and the place is running on newly qualifieds.

They then suffer compassion fatigue and distance themselves from patients. I’ve been on the other side in recent months as a patient and carer and noticed staff not bothering to introduce themselves or explain procedures, and not talking to my mum, shouting over her to each other etc- when she was dying. Thoughtless, lack of empathy behaviours. I see it also at work with staff in some units being very computer says no, obstructive, and not putting patients first. I’ve worked in the NHS for 30 years now and have seen this coming. It’s always been a pretty miserable and difficult environment to work in, poorly paid considering the expertise needed and the toll of the job, but the pressure is now relentless. We can’t retain people for very long post qualification, wages have been held down for years through importing staff from poorer countries, patient acuity (people are no longer admitted -bar surgeries- unless very sick indeed) and expectations are high, there are treatments now for conditions which would previously have not been treatable (eg some cancers may have 7 or so lines of treatment available and patients very complex), and the chronic short staffing and pressure is horrific. There is a lot of low grade bullying and misogyny, especially towards nurses, from staff, patients and managers. I would be horrified if my daughter chose to be a HCP.

Excellent post. Compassion fatigue is real.

@peasoup8

If you search on Mumsnet alone, there are endless threads and posts from women who have had appalling experiences in hospital.

That's because people don't take the time to post on MN about positive NHS experiences, because what would be the point in that? They come on here with negative experiences, be that related to a service they have received or their relationships, etc. Therefore experiences described on here are skewed towards the negative end of the spectrum. For every negative NHS experience, there'll be a positive one that you don't read about. It's not a perfect organisation and its staff are often chronically burnt out. Despite that, there are positive stories too.

Excellent post. Compassion fatigue is real

I agree. Compassion fatigue is like a defence mechanism many HCPs resort to when they’re over-worked, stressed and underpaid for the level of risk they put up with. You detach emotionally from your patients.

If wards were fully staffed and budgets spent wisely, if managers were more understanding and recognised stress earlier, fewer colleagues would leave or go sick.

Staff who are hard working, efficient and competent should be rewarded. Those who lack motivation/competence and play the system (eg going to ‘work from home’ at every opportunity or clocking up bizarre amounts of TOIL) need to be identified and put on a PIP or the NHS equivalent.

Instead the team takes the blame and has to carry the lazy colleagues with it, trying to limit damage to ensure patients get the best care. Then managers (who are rarely present) listen to the wrong people and try to put the efficient people on disciplinary/capability... and lose their best staff.

A classic example being my colleague who was repeatedly late to work due to covid affecting bus services; they tried to put her on a disciplinary for ‘unauthorised lateness’ even though it was out of her control and she always rang in to update us. So she left she got a better job! Now our team’s struggling even more as nobody else can do her job as well or as quickly, and they can’t seem to recruit anyone!

Honestly there are plenty of other essential services that aren't getting pay rises and that's public sector too.

Be grateful your getting some because even taking inflation into account your less worse off than those essential public sectors workers getting zero pay rise and taking inflation into account are worse off.

Your always ina sector where your literally safe from redundancy be use there is demand for people to do those jobs. Something that many sectors don't have.

@Dreamstate

Honestly there are plenty of other essential services that aren't getting pay rises and that's public sector too.

Be grateful your getting some because even taking inflation into account your less worse off than those essential public sectors workers getting zero pay rise and taking inflation into account are worse off.

Your always ina sector where your literally safe from redundancy be use there is demand for people to do those jobs. Something that many sectors don't have.

Safe from redundancy but at very real risk of burnout. Be grateful, people.

Funding impacts the service received. There is a lag as funding catches up and service takes a while to decline after investment is cut.

Between 1975 and 1997 the Tories averaged 3% increase in spend which was massively behind the increased cost of modern health and ageing population. At the end of that time public satisfaction was at a low of 35% with 50% dissatisfied.

For 13 years labour doubled the rate of increased investment (to 6%) At the end of that satisfaction was 70% and dissatisfaction at 20%. That is a phenomenal service improvement.

After Austerity this dropped back to 53% (60% in 2019 though). Dissatisfaction was driven by understaffing and waiting times.

I don't understand why people can't recognise this as an investment in the quality of our healthcare. It would benefit us all.

I agree, I think we are seeing compassion fatigue, I can see it in my normally resilient and happy colleagues. There is only so much we can give, every shift is short and if you are lucky enough to be fully staffed you can be sure staff will be moved off. I work on a surgical green ward so technically non covid but it gets in. We allow visitors and are flexible when a patient is end of life.

I have 20+ years in the NHS and I am seriously thinking about leaving yes, I would loose my amazing benefits but at the moment I am high risk of loosing myself. My family see a depressed exhausted mother and wife and that's not fair. If you try to raise issues they are ignored they just want to hear the positive, if you raise safety issues re staffing or breaks we get told all areas are the same, but you must still discharge 12 patients so 12 others will get their surgery, I feel responsible then if patients surgery is cancelled.

Tell me how can I safety discharge patients, care for post op patients, review our dying patients with the level of care and safety patients deserve,.and the trust mandates. We often have 6 staff for 26 patients and it only takes one medical emergency and you have 4 of your staff dealing with that whilst the other 2 care for the whole rest of ward. Where are the mangers? Good question these are qualified nurses but rarely come to help,.just issue instructions, could help cover breaks but there priority is paperwork.

If something goes wrong we the nurses are to blame, as a sister I have to speak to my staff about incidents and when you break it down it is a systematic failure but we take the blame. We couldn't be any lower.

It's not really about pay its about the dismantling of the NHS under the Tories. We will loose this sooner rather than later. I am sorry for those who had a poor experience, on the whole HCP are in the job because they care, yes there are a few that really should not be doing this job.

The NHS works and survives on the good will of its staff. 3% is great if you already earn lots of money, and these are the people who at the beginning of covid were working from home, most of the surgeons I work with were at home because theatres were shut. If there was an emergency they came in wearing there own FFP3 masks at a time we were told off for wearing masks and told they were not needed, very scary indeed. The doctor's tend to be stronger and listened to that's why nurses will never really be seen for what they are, otherwise our salaries would have be substantially increased, don't forget most nurses are women to which helps keep us in our place. I really dispare.

Your always ina sector where your literally safe from redundancy be use there is demand for people to do those jobs. Something that many sectors don't have.

Again, redundancy happens in the NHS all the time.

@Rupertpenrysmistress

The thing is that it’s not just the NHS that has to cope with reduced staffing.

As I posted up thread, my DD works in a cafe over the summer. Her boss has had to reduce staffing from up to 8 servers (plus 2 baristas) on shift to a maximum of 2 (who also now make all drinks).

Equally, my company has has to reduce staffing in most departments by 20%. The remaining staff have to adapt and manage.

[quote GreenLakes]@Rupertpenrysmistress

The thing is that it’s not just the NHS that has to cope with reduced staffing.

As I posted up thread, my DD works in a cafe over the summer. Her boss has had to reduce staffing from up to 8 servers (plus 2 baristas) on shift to a maximum of 2 (who also now make all drinks).

Equally, my company has has to reduce staffing in most departments by 20%. The remaining staff have to adapt and manage.[/quote]
You’re seriously comparing healthcare to a cafe? Really?

Your always ina sector where your literally safe from redundancy

No we really aren’t.

Not enough staff in a cafe = people wait longer for their food and drink

Not enough staff in a hospital = people die

Yep, definitely a good comparison 🤣

Also, @GreenLakes you’d make a great nhs manager. ‘People have to adapt and manage’ is a classic line to tell us to stfu about unsafe staffing.

Staff in a cafe will "adapt and manage" by going as fast as they can and putting put with the complaints.

You have no idea what it is like to be in charge of a mental health ward where multiple patients are harming themselves, and you have to choose who to go to first as you don't have enough staff to go to them all.

I left inpatient work because the stress was making me ill.

@Sanguinesuzy but I didn’t tar you all with the same brush. I clearly stated that some NHS workers are wonderful and others are not.

Therefore experiences described on here are skewed towards the negative end of the spectrum.

@feelingmehtoday that’s kind of irrelevant though. I mean, I’m sure many people do have positive experiences, but that doesn’t negate the fact that there are thousands of others who don’t, myself included. I know many other women who’ve had an awful time on the maternity wards, and that’s just maternity.

[quote peasoup8]@Sanguinesuzy but I didn’t tar you all with the same brush. I clearly stated that some NHS workers are wonderful and others are not.

Therefore experiences described on here are skewed towards the negative end of the spectrum.

@feelingmehtoday that’s kind of irrelevant though. I mean, I’m sure many people do have positive experiences, but that doesn’t negate the fact that there are thousands of others who don’t, myself included. I know many other women who’ve had an awful time on the maternity wards, and that’s just maternity.[/quote]

It's not irrelevant, at all, when you're effectively using it as an argument for why NHS staff as a whole don't deserve a pay rise. I've had bad experiences by specific individuals in supermarkets, car garages, education settings, medical settings... etc. I would never be so shortsighted to suggest that these experiences negate the good work of others and therefore the organisation as a whole doesn't deserve financial recognition for the times when it gets it right. There exists not one perfect organisation. All organisations will have times when they get it wrong. All of them.

But you can't expect inflation busting payrises if you're no longer progressing in your career

Most nurses are 5 and 6s , it doesn't look like you understand that. Once you are 7 and above these tend to be more management type roles and less patient contact.

I see this misconception a lot. The vast majority of the test and trace budget is paying for tests. Testing is important and it’s good that the government is paying for it.

Quite a lot of stats here are missing the last few years. The kings fund does good analysis of health spending.

3% is an insult.

We (healthcare practitioners in the NHS) have been expected to put up with wages far below what we could get in other professions with similar levels of qualifications, unsafe working conditions (staff are assaulted fairly regularly, we've been on the frontline in this pandemic often without the PPE we needed, having to manage frankly dangerous staffing levels on busy wards where not getting to someone in time can mean they die), long hours (I can't remember the last time I actually managed to leave work at the time scheduled in the rota - people don't stop needing resuscitated just because your shift's ending), minimal support from senior management within trusts/boards...

In the past year/18 months, people have been happy to clap for us and put rainbows up to show support. But clapping and rainbows don't pay our bills. And they don't encourage people to join a field where the hours are long, the pressure is immense and the support is minimal.

The NHS is reaching a crisis point in terms of staffing. Many clinicians have left or are going to leave, thanks to the effects of the pandemic and Brexit. Other clinicians have died, having given their lives during this pandemic to save others when the government couldn't even be bothered to provide us with adequate PPE, or are battling long COVID or other complications. If we want to attract and retain qualified professionals, we need to offer them something tangible. 3% doesn't cover most people's parking fees at their work.

I know that some people consider careers in the NHS to be stable and "jobs for life", but this really isn't the case anymore. We have to go through stringent appraisal processes, training programmes where competition for places is fierce and completion is not guaranteed (eg. in some specialities if a trainee fails an exam twice they won't be able to continue in the training progamme), and job opportunities can mean choosing between career and family (I know many people who have had to move hundreds of miles away from their families in order to continue with their careers).

I think this is yet another example of the government and society not sufficiently appreciating the skills and expertise of professionals in public sector roles. It's interesting that while we're expected to be grateful for whatever crumbs the government deigns to throw at us, they are busy giving themselves and their friends enormous amounts of money and expensive perks.

[quote GreenLakes]@Rupertpenrysmistress

The thing is that it’s not just the NHS that has to cope with reduced staffing.

As I posted up thread, my DD works in a cafe over the summer. Her boss has had to reduce staffing from up to 8 servers (plus 2 baristas) on shift to a maximum of 2 (who also now make all drinks).

Equally, my company has has to reduce staffing in most departments by 20%. The remaining staff have to adapt and manage.[/quote]
Honestly, all my lovely NHS colleagues, we don't need to justify ourselves to the general public. We don't need their 'goodwill' or support to fight for what we need. As this post so aptly demonstrates... People really don't have any idea what we do. These people don't get to decide what we are worth and we don't need their permission to ask for safe working conditions.

People really don't have any idea what we do. These people don't get to decide what we are worth and we don't need their permission to ask for safe working conditions.

Most sensible comment on here. 👏🏻

@GreenLakes you are laughably ignorant.

blossomtoes I hear you and I feel for your dd really I do, I think young people have taken the brunt of this awful situation. However you cannot compare my understaffed shift with someone serving coffee. If I went out for coffee and was told it might take a while, we are short staffed I would say no problems I will wait. But people who need drugs who are end of life and in pain or need support as are seriously unwell cannot wait. You cannot compare the 2. Also I am sure your dd get breaks, we don't always as it's the difference between someone becoming unwell whilst we sit having coffee.

I don't know how to fix it but I would love some of you on this thread to join me for a 13 shift and make some suggestions.