NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@OdetoMyFamily

Leaving to do dog walking is popular! £10 per walk, 4 dogs at a time. Less stress for sure

You'd have to walk a lot of dogs to replicate the salary and benefits of being an NHS clinician.

16 dogs a day so 4 walks a day 4 dogs each walk 5 days a week And that's including 6weeks 'holiday' unpaid due self employed nature. Not responsible for anyone dying, being traumatized or left in their own bodily fluids. I can see the appeal.

I say, if the private sector is so well paid and an easy ride, quit nursing and take a job with no pension, no sick pay and living day to day at risk.

Many nurses are doing this, that's why we have a staffing crisis.

Every person I know, including myself, did so because of bullying and terrible management; not the salary (which is well publicised before you enter the job).

I think NHS staff need to "read the room" a little more right now, and realise they won't get a lot of sympathy from people who have lost their jobs, businesses and homes through Covid.

I'm not saying that SOME staff haven't worked ridiculously hard this year - but so have supermarket staff, truck drivers, postmen etc ... and these people didn't sign up for jobs that are knowingly exposing them to infectious diseases, and they often do so for minimum wage.

Sorry, that was replying to a comment regarding people leaving the NHS in droves. Quote didn't attach!

Let's see the pay rise they'll award themselves. Another 10 or 11% probably

The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

Definitely, absolutely not correct.
If this gives you an idea - I am an NHS band 8 (higher banding than most nurses), and for me it equates to an extra £114 a month before tax and other deductions. So no, nurses aren't getting an extra 1k a month.

@June2008

I guess as the award is for all NHS staff as opposed to just public facing staff the award has to be capped at something affordable. What would be better is to give a bonus to those who have been doing the gallant on the wards. There are an awful lot of NHS staff who haven't been under the pressure that frontline/ward staff have been under so should they be getting the same?

There are sectors of the NHS that aren't directly working on covid wards who are feeling the strain, and will continue to do so because of increased demand. Mental health, cancer care, nuclear diagnostics and any services that deal with any aspect of long covid or conditions that have worsened because of a lack of treatment during the pandemic. Not to mention porters, admin non clinical managers who have all played their part to keep services running in very difficult circumstances.

I take your point about reading the room. Perhaps HCPs read the room over the last ten-odd years where the result has been a 'real-term' pay cut of 12.5% and realised the government and the public don't really care. Still 'good will'. Other public sector jobs faced the same.

I suspect many think Lord Bethell was right 'Lucky to have a job'.

I need to change my thinking. It's only MPs and some private sector workers for whom 'if you pay peanuts then you'll get monkeys'. Payrises won't help NHS recruitment. And we can't afford them anyway. Magic money tree. Bottomless pit.

We should try absolute pay cuts instead of the hidden pay cuts that have been applied for c10 years - Pay cuts to help recruitment.

The staff of the NHS aren’t the only people who have worked hard, but nobody else is kicking up a fuss and threatening peoples lives by striking. The money has to come from somewhere, why should other people have to have worse services or pay more taxes?

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

Where do you get that idea from?! It happens all the time!

PCTs made at least 2000 NHS staff redundant to my knowledge. I think NHS Direct made too. I think there have been more. Not all HCPs and not to say some didn't take jobs elsewhere.

But what did not kicking up a fuss achieve? 12% pay cut between 2010 and 2020 in real terms.

The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

Let’s do the maths on that shall we?

£1k per month = £12000 per year
If £12000 is 3% then the base salary is £400k.

The average nurse does not earn £400k.

On a salary of £30k 3% equates to a £1k increase per year.

@Justcallmebebes

Private sector - no pay rise for 3 years now. Cry me a fucking river

I work in the private sector and don't think there is any comparison in what I do and what an NHS nurse does. Or a teacher for that matter. No one has ever suggested to me that I should risk my life day in and day out for little to no pay or recognition because it's my 'calling' or it's 'vocational'. The pay increase is an insult to the very people who are saving our lives (quite literally), it's not a race to the bottom.

I'm not sure why us as nurses, midwives, doctors, HCAs etc are constantly compared to truck drivers, postmen, supermarket workers.

Our jobs are very, very different. Incomparable.

Every role in society has it's value. But you can't compare a factory worker packing boxes and an ICU nurse. They are very different.

Personally, I am no longer concerned with public support or reading the room. I know my own value. And I know the value of my colleagues.

I agree people need to read the room. Many chronically ill people like me were abandoned at the start of the pandemic. Treatment isn't resuming any time soon and it's very hard to have any sympathy for demands for a huge pay rise with threats of a strike that would set our treatment back even further.

The government can get away with paying nurses and teachers shit pay because it's traditional mens work, innit?
If they were traditionally male dominated professions, we'd not be having this discussion.

@NavigatingAdolescence

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

Where do you get that idea from?! It happens all the time!

The cost of Lansley 2012 reform to reduce bureaucracy was over £600m in redundancy. And now there's 15% more managers than before he started. That fiasco is estimated to have cost a total of £4bn. Enough to fund a 10% pay increase across the board.

Let’s do the maths on that shall

No need. The maths was done hundreds of posts ago. If only you'd RTFT.

This thread really illustrates how much disinformation has worked it's magic.

For all those complaining about private sector pay and conditions start fighting - that's what is happening here, people are unhappy with their treatment so they are preparing to fight it or get out of it - everyone has that same right. Stop with the race to the bottom shit, the answer to all this is not "I have it worse so you can't have better" it is "you deserve better and so do I"

Well exactly, while everyone is scrapping about who 'deserves' what, no one is looking at the bigger picture and Westminster carries on as normal while the rest of us decide if NHS staff, or teachers or police officers are worthy enough to get paid a decent amount for the job they do.
It's pitting people against each other and it's working, other sectors saying they are getting nothing and they deserve it and it's not fair the NHS are getting anything are going to have the same attitude back at them from NHS workers when they reach this point, because it's a vicious circle, all the while the pay stays too low for everyone because that, essentially is what we're telling them we want.

"I don't get it so they shouldn't either"
Fine, no one gets it then - happy government!

I personally want to be cared for by staff that aren't rushed off their feet, exhausted and beaten down by their jobs, I want children to be educated by teachers who feel supported and respected, I want police officers that don't have their hands tied by red tape and stupid policies, and enough available to actually be able to attend when I need them and that have good working conditions to enable them to give me a good service, I want a fire service that has enough resources to be able to rescue me efficiently and safely and before it's too late with equipment that protects them properly.

The list could go on indefinitely.

I've thought for some time that this country is becoming more and more skewed towards the "Needs of the business/service" and the fact that humans with all the wonderful imperfections we have are at the heart of any business or service has been long forgotten.

I work in a hospital in Nottingham and nursing turnover is very very high

I'm some areas they are trialing a 3 shift system it's currently 7am-7:30pm and 7pm-7:30am

The new proposal is a 6-2, 2-10 and 10-6 (with a 15-20 min handover) but this means people will work 4 shifts over 7 days not 3 (as an example) and for people paying childcare it'll cost them more and a lot of childcare providers charge for the day as opposed to part of the day.

13 hours is gruelling 😩 I'm office based and working office hours but I honestly don't know how they do it, especially in this heat.

But 3% is awful it's an insult
There's talk of NHS strike action in Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire and Bassetlaw - very sad it's coming to that.

I agree people need to read the room. Many chronically ill people like me were abandoned at the start of the pandemic. Treatment isn't resuming any time soon and it's very hard to have any sympathy for demands for a huge pay rise with threats of a strike that would set our treatment back even further.

But you understand that the covid guidance was issued by Public Health England, not by the NHS employees? And that low pay leads to fewer staff and more delays to treatment?

Not at all surprised by the venom on this thread towards nurses and some how teachers. As a band 6 nurse I could tell you about the patients I have cared for who have died from covid without their relatives, rushed off my feet with 5 staff to 26 patients and gutted I can't sit with a patient so they don't die alone. Don't worry that's one bonus I get to carry forever or, my colleague who had a cardiac arrest due to covid 8 months ago and and can only now return on greatly reduced hours as she is still very unwell. But yes let's talk benefits I get to retire at 67 like everyone else whilst working 13 hour shifts because they are better for staff because they are cheaper. No PPE then expired what's not to be envious off🤔.
Also the fear and tears of possibly dying of covid,my son was crying every time I went to work ,as a NHS bonus we were dying too. Don't expect the waiting list to get better anytime soon. My trust is currently cancelling operations due to lack of overpaid staff!!! and ya know covid, it has not gone away. I have worked for the NHS for nearly 24 years I am done, I can barely walk when I finish work and am tearful and snappy. And I will give up my amazing benefits to have a better life. Good luck at least I have my qualifications to help my family if they are ill.

As an aside there are many many jobs available, please apply we are desperate and according to this thread anyone can do it. Thanks to my amazing colleagues who have held me up, you have all done a wonderful job. I for one will not be staying for the wonderful benefits, but at least I will get Christmas with my family.

Pay will never rise substantially whilst the NHS is by a country mile the largest employer of HCPs. Although there obviously are jobs in the private sector, it's not as much of a pull as for other professions. My neighbour works in the civil service and is well paid, but it isn't because of a perceived level of responsibility, value to society or for how hard the work is, but because the vast majority of her profession are employed within the private sector. To attract people with the right qualification (it's not a degree but a professional qual) and experience, they have to at least somewhat compete with the market of whom in this thing tend to pay well and offer good benefits.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

To all of those wailing 'no magic money tree' please look up thread. It's estimated that 80% of the increase would go back to the government in taxes and money multiplier effect. It would be a great economic boost.

And even if it didn't a 5% rise would be about £1.5bn including pension and NI etc. I suggest we add 2% to stamp duty for second homes. That'd get you about £1.5bn and cool the housing market down.

And even if it didn't a 5% rise would be about £1.5bn including pension and NI etc. I suggest we add 2% to stamp duty for second homes. That'd get you about £1.5bn and cool the housing market down

Excellent idea. And surely if we can find ways to fund a decent pay increase all those highly paid civil servants in the Treasury can manage it.