Sad about DC relationship

[HeyGirlHeyBoy]

I'd love some perspective from parents who've had this and people who've been the kids in this station. I have 2 DS and I know deep down they love one another but there is a lot of squabbling, unkind words, particularly from the oldest towards the youngest. There's no sense of 'looking out for his younger brother'. Just dropped them to camp and eldest just walked on ahead of youngest (5) despite a 100m walk in same direction. I don't want to make them feel they must get on but it does make me sad to see that. He does say he feels youngest is preferred, of course that's not the case, but I hear him out and reassure him etc. Has anyone has this and come through? Is the hands off, bar obviously putting in limits with behaviour, the bear approach or should I be more insistent? Feeling a bit despondent this morning, would appreciate opinions and experiences.

@ChainJane

I think this is more common than you'd think. It's pretty normal for the elder sibling to resent the younger one because they feel the younger one is getting the attention that would be lavished upon them if they were still an only child. This tends to lead to bullying at best and outright abuse at worst.

The best advice is to come down like a ton of bricks every time you see the elder child behaving badly toward the younger one. Take the younger one's word above the elder one's if you are unsure who is to blame in any situation. As with "male privilege" and "white privilege" there is such a thing as "eldest privilege" - the eldest child has inherent advantages in every situation and therefore the younger sibling needs to be treated more favourably simply to be treated equally.

You really need to tackle it head on and call it out every time you see it. Otherwise the elder child will see your inaction as a green light to continue his behaviour.

I don't agree at all! Don't just treat the youngest favourably for no reason!

This is a ridiculous reply.

@ChainJane

I think this is more common than you'd think. It's pretty normal for the elder sibling to resent the younger one because they feel the younger one is getting the attention that would be lavished upon them if they were still an only child. This tends to lead to bullying at best and outright abuse at worst.

The best advice is to come down like a ton of bricks every time you see the elder child behaving badly toward the younger one. Take the younger one's word above the elder one's if you are unsure who is to blame in any situation. As with "male privilege" and "white privilege" there is such a thing as "eldest privilege" - the eldest child has inherent advantages in every situation and therefore the younger sibling needs to be treated more favourably simply to be treated equally.

You really need to tackle it head on and call it out every time you see it. Otherwise the elder child will see your inaction as a green light to continue his behaviour.

I honestly don’t know if I’ve ever read such shit.

I think the age gap can be tricky and actually think a bigger one can sometimes be better!

We have 9&11 and then a toddler.

The 9&11 year old do not get on very well at all and regularly fall out but both absolutely adore their younger sibling, I think because they both feel like they are being looked up to by them iyswim. They aren't just brothers they are the little ones teacher and they like that.

@Merryoldgoat neither have I!

It sounds very normal to me, honestly. And he is only 8 himself, its unreasonable to expect he will "look out for little brother".

I'm an eldest (did you guess?) and when my sister started school, brownies, piano lessons etc I'd get the comments (not just from parents either) that I would be helping her/ looking out for her. When I objected, which I thought was reasonable seeing as I'd done all those things on my own, I was told I was mean and unkind.

Another thing I will flag up is the youngest tends to stay in the "baby" role ad infinitum unless parents are careful. I would get given a role of responsibility ie once I was secondary age my mum started going out on a Friday night and I was expected to do dinner for me, sister and dad. I did so until 3 or 4 years had passed and I realised my sister was now older than when I had started doing it. I broached it and suggested we take turns. She refused and mum let her off "because she's only young and worried about getting it wrong". That sort of thing really resonates.

I will also say, more cheerfully, that your boys probably have more of a bond than you think deep down. Day to day bickering and rivalry is normal but when it comes to the crunch they would likely have each others backs. My kids have a 9 year gap but they do still bicker and wind each other up, sometimes quite nastily (my youngest is a lot smaller but absolute queen of the wind up!) But in the odd situation when big brother has witnessed someone ELSE being horrible or rude to his sister he is absolutely livid and straight to her defence!

Camp is divided by age so they are in different sections. Thanks have to run but will come back and read properly and respond later.

The way I see this is the gap between 5 and 8 can be quite big. The 8 year old probably thinks 5 year olds are pretty babyish and might not always want one tagging along with him especially amongst peers.

I'd come down heavily if you see the older one being deliberately mean but I'd be wary of having any particular expectations of the older looking out for the younger.

I don't have any reassuring words to be honest OP. I'm still waiting for some brotherly love.

I have two DS. Eldest is 14. His brother is nearly 3 years younger. DS1 detests his brother and has resented him from the day he was born.
It doesn't help that DS1 is naturally introverted and not affectionate. He has always struggled a bit with life in general and really doesn't like doing anything other than football. He detests doing 'family stuff'.
DS2 is an extrovert and has always been extremely affectionate and loves to 'do stuff'. He also likes what his brother calls 'girly stuff' which we call DS1 out on - but he has that mindset. Not from us. From society.

DS1 is vile to his brother and we call him out every time he makes a nasty comment. He is convinced DS2 is our favourite and over the years DS2 has given up trying to play with his big brother and treats him now with the same resentment that he gets.

DS2 starts secondary in September, and we have asked DS1 if he will 'look after him' but he just looks at us like we're mad. (DS2 doesn't really need 'looking after' as he has plenty of confidence, but its still a big change for an 11 year old and he's the only one from his class going to this school) I'm waiting to see how this pans out

You can’t force them to like each other and trying to will probably cause more resentment in the future, I was best buds with my sister when I was younger but we don’t have any relationship now as we grew into two very different people, so being close when young doesn’t guarantee closeness when older and vice versa

@whistlers and @Merryoldgoat. Couldn't agree more. Not least the assumption that in any given dispute the older is a liar.

Sometimes it takes the wisdom of Solomon but you have to try to be fair. (And seen to be fair.)

There are more advantages to a sibling than disadvantages. They are BOTH so young. I wouldn't expect either of them to take responsibility to care/look after the other and they need to learn to turn the page (and not hold onto resentment if the other one disappoints). At that age - all children get frustrated, angry, jealous etc. Patiently teaching them to understand their (and other peoples emotions) and consequences of their actions could help. At their age compassion is often learnt/taught. Maybe suggest and praise acts of kindness, thoughtfulness. It takes maturity to understand how someone else is feeling (as well as manage ones own feelings). Maybe have the older one 'give' toys he's finished with to his sibling and praise him (tell the other how kind the older one is being). Keeping special toys to himself but encourage him to let his brother play with them when asked. Have one suggest a favourite juice to give the other one and include it in the shopping and let him take credit/gift it. Separation might help, they don't have to do lego together if causes aggravation - having their own 'area' - e.g. activity/sport team might also help. Just keep smoothing their relationship over - and hopefully that will carry them forward in life.

Let it happen naturally

Don't try and force them, they will most likely come to appreciate each other

Ignore the advice to always believe the younger child over the older that’s a sure fire way to make your eldest feel ignored and will only increase the jealousy and bad feeling

Make sure younger one doesn’t get away with winding up the older one into lashing out. Obviously violence is unacceptable from either child but if you can see younger one annoying his brother, step in and separate them. Make sure older one knows he can come to you to intervene if this is happening out of your sight/earshot.

Stop expecting the older child to look out for his brother. It’s nice if he does but it’s not his responsibility and he managed to navigate school/activities/etc without a brother looking out for him, so I’m sure his brother can manage to do the same.

Actual meanness (from either child) is unacceptable but it’s normal for them to play separately and not want the other intruding, especially the older child if they feel the younger one is too little.

Don't try and force them, they will most likely come to appreciate each other

Exactly this!

I do think it’s normal.
But what I’ve seen from my sisters DCs and a couple of friends is that the younger one is often unintentionally treated more favourably as they’re the baby and obviously need a bit more support than the older ones but this means the older ones are forced to play with them and help them with everything they do. The older one gets in trouble for not wanting to play with the younger one but the younger one is free to play on their own when they want. I have noticed it a lot from the outside and it does create tension and makes the older one not want to play with the younger one even more.

I was the younger one who wanted to play with my older sister so I understand what you mean but you have to have a balance. Let the older one have time to themselves but have times when he has to include his younger brother.

My mum felt the same, she was very sad my brother and I didn't get on. Unfortunately he was a nightmare and we have totally different personalities, so never got on and still don't. I used to hate being told to look out for him, he was not my responsibility. And do not take that ridiculous advice upthread to ignore the eldest in favour of the youngest!!!

I'm the middle of 3 children all with 3 years between us, I always got on with my elder sister but me and and younger brother did not get on at all (he knew how to annoy me and I rose to the occasion every time).

At the time I'm sure I felt as though he was favoured but looking back I don't think that was really the case, definitely wouldn't recommend following the advice to put pressure on the elder to be responsible for the younger or take the younger's side each time that'll effect their relationship with each other and you permanently.

We never really got along until after I moved out and we got some space between us, now things are great and I'm happy we will have a good adult relationship for many years to come at the expense of the younger ones being a bit shit.

Thank you all so much, I won't name check every person! Just to be clear, they're not forced to play together at all so no pressure there and I haven't voiced the 'looking after' thing just the sight was so striking this morning! Lots of great points for reflection and awareness for me and yes, they would fight someone to the death to defend one another too!
Merryoldgoat what do they fight over? 'He smiled at me' 'He stuck out his tongue' 'He hit me' 'Because he called me a fat bum' [Where's the monkey covering his eyes emoji?]

In my opinion you need to knock the fighting in the head.

Hitting - no - you need to come down hard on the hitting.

Smiling - smiling is normal - if you ate throwing a strop because of a smile you are getting punished.

Name calling - not allowed. Doesn’t matter how innocuous.

I suspect (but of course could be wrong) that this has all become really tiresome and you generally leave them to it. It’s a pain but I’d intervene until their relationship became more stable.

If they don’t feel like every interaction is allowed to become a battleground it might help.

I’m no expert though but that’s what I’d do.

@ChainJane- are the youngest by any chance?

Not completely dismissing your stance, but I did notice my hackles rising as I read it- I'm the eldest and although I had and have a great relationship with my younger siblings, I felt real waves of waaa! that's so unfair as I read your suggestions.

It's a hard one. Some schools of thought are to leave them to the minor rows unless someone is hurt or upset.. My DB and I regularly had full on wrestling matches... Now very close. Sometimes I even think it seems bonding for them. But yes I do say all of the above. Cannot stand name calling. The smile you see is a perceived smug or gloating smile.

Ok. I’ll give you an example.

My sister used to goad me quietly. Over and over. Eventually I’d snap. Shout and lose my rag.

Smug gloaty smile which disappeared when mum arrived.

Used to hit herself and get a red mark then tell mum I did it.

I was never taken seriously.

I’m not projecting.

You can leave kids to sort it out if they’re generally close but the fact is yours aren’t and this combative environment will drive them further apart imho.

Yes that's exactly the potential scenario. Thank you, appreciate your input.

Reading this with interest OP. No advice as my two DC are 5 and 2 so in the thick of it, but I already see the resentment from my older DC. I find this age harder than 4 and 1 a year ago as Dc2 was very much a baby then, and I suspect it’s only going to get trickier as they get older!

I only came here to say that @ChainJane ‘s reply is madness. They’re either on a wind up or they’re bonkers. 🤣

Yes lookingforadvice, I'm afraid that is what has happened here! There are wonderful moments too and sometimes I see a real fondness from older one so I believe (and hope!!) that that is the love underneath it all. But I need to build up my eldest's self esteem now as I know he is down on himself while being full of bluster on the outside.. He said to me before that youngest doesn't get too bothered if people are mean to him (he's one of those incredibly even, good natured people, since day one very calm and easy) as he was annoyed when he heard someone say something to him. And then he said 'That's one of the things I like about him' so I know he sees the good in him but when it comes to his instinctive feeling, it's a case of 'Life was better before you came to mess it all up!'