10 Years and Nothing!!

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

I don’t even know what my AIBU is. My head is spinning. I’ve name changed for this because it could be outing.

I’m furious. My DH has worked for the same man for 10 years. He is a highly skilled tradesman (engineer) His bastard boss refused to take him on as an employee even though he wears the uniform, drives a sign written vehicle, works set hours and doesn’t do any other private work. He is essentially an employee without any of the benefits. The bastard boss hides behind the CIS scheme so that he can get all the benefits of having an employee without the faff. My DH hasn’t had a single day of paid holiday or sick leave for nearly 10 years.

Bastard boss comes to the house after work on Friday and announces that he is closing the company and moving overseas in a weeks time. One week!

He has also made it clear that there will be no redundancy pay. He got the work vehicle evaluated and has said my DH can buy it from him. He showed the evaluation to my DH. He is refusing to give him any discount on it. Not a single penny. I’m furious and heartbroken. I don’t know what we’re going to do.

Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything we can actually do? Ten years of loyalty. Ten years!

@Waitrosedisaster

he’s been knowingly submitting tax returns

How very dare he! How else was he meant to pay his taxes? This has actually made me laugh 😂

Yes, you say it was the contractors responsibility to register him as an employee but you also say that despite the fact you knew he should he an employee, your husband continued the pretence because he was making lots of money. I don't think anyones hands are particularly clean in this scenario.

@Waitrosedisaster maybe do some research into how the construction industry scheme works before commenting again

Did inland revenue query when he was doing self assessment year after year for the same employer with no other declared earnings?

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@Waitrosedisaster

he’s been knowingly submitting tax returns

How very dare he! How else was he meant to pay his taxes? This has actually made me laugh 😂[/quote]
Am I missing something? If he did not think he was self-employed why did he continue to submit tax returns? Why didn't he report his employer? Why didn't he find another job? He didn't do any of those things because as you say he was benefitting from the situation for ten years. I'm glad it makes you laugh though. Says a lot really.

@Waitrosedisaster My DH hasn’t benefited from this arrangement in ANY way. How dare you imply his hands are dirty. Your comments are ignorant and insulting.

@Waitrosedisaster I don’t think OP’s DH did anything ‘illegal’, he was a subcontractor working for a contractor under the CIS scheme.
The CIS scheme unfortunately comes with no sick pay, holiday pay etc, but has other benefits - in fact, many times it’s more beneficial to be CIS than PAYE (financially speaking).

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@Waitrosedisaster maybe do some research into how the construction industry scheme works before commenting again[/quote]
Sweetie, I'm not sure it's me who is struggling here. Maybe I should try and summarise my understanding, in case I've got it wrong:

Your husband is registered as a subcontractor and has worked for the same company for ten years.

He does not believe he is a subcontractor and feels he is clearly an employee and the contractor has not been paying the correct NICs and PAYE as a result.

Despite the fact he knows the contractor does this, he doesn't do anything or say anything because 'the money is good'

He continues to submit tax returns under the pretence he fulfils the subcontractor criteria, because it's financially beneficial for him.

He does not report the contractor, nor does he try and find another job because it's financially better for him to stay put.

After being there for ten years and not having an issue with the contractors fiddling of the books, he's sulking because he's not being treated as an employee and getting redundancy

Have I missed anything?

@Waitrosedisaster Yes ‘sweetie’ you have missed a lot. Did I at any point say anything was illegal? Did I say I am suing the guy or reporting him? Or am I just saying he is an unethical dickhead who has exploited my husband and that I am upset that he hasn’t rewarded his loyalty for 10 years of service?

I don't understand what you meant about not getting the SEISS grants. Why couldn't he get them?
There was a case of a self employed hairdresser in a salon owned by someone else. Can't remember the details maybe newly self employed. Not entitled to furlough because hmrc said she wasn't an employee. But she wasn't allowed to set her own prices and times or holidays. I think she won her case

Do you think the boss might be closing the company because the fraud office or HMRC are onto him?

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@Waitrosedisaster Yes ‘sweetie’ you have missed a lot. Did I at any point say anything was illegal? Did I say I am suing the guy or reporting him? Or am I just saying he is an unethical dickhead who has exploited my husband and that I am upset that he hasn’t rewarded his loyalty for 10 years of service?[/quote]
Urm right so nothing you've said here actually answers anything in my last post. So I will go ahead and presume my summary is correct. As I said, two pairs of dirty hands.

And if you're that convinced your husband has done absolutely nothing wrong, if you did report to HMRC and they asked why he's kept a lid on it for ten years, would you be happy to say, as you've done here, because he earned a lot of money by keeping quiet and getting on with it? Out of curiosity of course

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@Waitrosedisaster Yes ‘sweetie’ you have missed a lot. Did I at any point say anything was illegal? Did I say I am suing the guy or reporting him? Or am I just saying he is an unethical dickhead who has exploited my husband and that I am upset that he hasn’t rewarded his loyalty for 10 years of service?[/quote]
Tbf - as a self employed subcontractor under the CIS scheme then your husband could, and should, have been claiming expenses - laundering of uniform. Home office space (for the completion of invoicing and tax returns) Mobile phone (if used for business use)

This is why people should pay accountants!

@Waitrosedisaster it is not the 'employee' who is in the wrong here, it is the contractor - they submit a monthly return confirming they meet the requirements for Subcontracting labour, and that the subcontractor meets those requirements.
HMRC take this up with the contractor due to this declaration, not the subbie.

@Newkitchen123. SEISS grants weren't payable to anyone earning over £50k, which is entirely possible for a hardworking gas engineer in London who doesn't take any holidays.

OP, as PPs have eluded to, I would be extremely cautious about making a fuss with HMRC because the fact is that the amount of tax and NI payable by a SE person is lower than someone on PAYE with the same gross salary. It's not a huge amount now, especially given the lack of employment rights, but going back 10 years, the difference was more significant and could add up to a significant sum, especially if fines and penalties are added.

[quote QforCucumber]@Waitrosedisaster it is not the 'employee' who is in the wrong here, it is the contractor - they submit a monthly return confirming they meet the requirements for Subcontracting labour, and that the subcontractor meets those requirements.
HMRC take this up with the contractor due to this declaration, not the subbie.[/quote]
He has deliberately submitted false returns for ten years!

@GreatBigHooAndToodaloo

I don’t even know what my AIBU is. My head is spinning. I’ve name changed for this because it could be outing.

I’m furious. My DH has worked for the same man for 10 years. He is a highly skilled tradesman (engineer) His bastard boss refused to take him on as an employee even though he wears the uniform, drives a sign written vehicle, works set hours and doesn’t do any other private work. He is essentially an employee without any of the benefits. The bastard boss hides behind the CIS scheme so that he can get all the benefits of having an employee without the faff. My DH hasn’t had a single day of paid holiday or sick leave for nearly 10 years.

Bastard boss comes to the house after work on Friday and announces that he is closing the company and moving overseas in a weeks time. One week!

He has also made it clear that there will be no redundancy pay. He got the work vehicle evaluated and has said my DH can buy it from him. He showed the evaluation to my DH. He is refusing to give him any discount on it. Not a single penny. I’m furious and heartbroken. I don’t know what we’re going to do.

Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything we can actually do? Ten years of loyalty. Ten years!

You sound like a strong woman. Could you help with driving the business forward and do admin, dealing with suppliers, marketing etc. You could both make a great team ! It will be fun. I work with my husband.

They aren't false if the contractor provided him with a statement confirming they have found him within the scope of CIS for subcontract purposes.

@Waitrosedisaster he absolutely hasn’t! He has submitted returns as a CIS contractor which is exactly what he is. In the description box on the tax return we say exactly what he does and we list his company’s details. We’ve been doing it for 10 years and HMRC has never said it’s wrong. Even after an audit 3 years ago.

you've got the suppliers on board, take all the customers - make sure he gets all the details in the last week he's there - start the company as you plan to do, run it better and legally do the right things with HMRC.

I would make sure the name isn't anything like the old business though given the stuff the boss was doing wrong! If he was doing dodgy things with workers, you can bet the VAT/other things were not correct too.

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@Waitrosedisaster he absolutely hasn’t! He has submitted returns as a CIS contractor which is exactly what he is. In the description box on the tax return we say exactly what he does and we list his company’s details. We’ve been doing it for 10 years and HMRC has never said it’s wrong. Even after an audit 3 years ago.[/quote]
Yes but you're saying he doesn't meet the criteria for a subcontractor. I really don't know how else to explain it to you

@QforCucumber Thank you so much! We employed an account this morning.

@BarbaraofSeville I won’t be reporting him. I’m just really upset because I never thought he’d do something like this to us. With him leaving the country there is no point really and we can’t afford a lawyer. Not a good one anyway. This guy is very wealthy and we wouldn’t stand a chance.

@DonnaPruMcCullough That’s really sweet of you to say, thank you so much. You’re right, it could be fun and incredibly rewarding. Thank you for the motivation 💐

@StrongArm thank you for the advice. We have also just registered as an employer so if we take someone on in the future we will make sure they are never taken advantage of.

You said that your tax returns etc are all in order after an audit - that means that the boss hasn’t done anything illegal.
Unfair, but not illegal
Quite naive of you to let it go on frankly?
Also doesn’t make sense to complain. Your DH never got any sick or paid leave but still stayed at the same company. Because the ‘money was good’. So you decided that the money was fair compensation. That’s completely on you?

Posters with more in depth knowledge feel free to correct me but w.r.t the general state of the employment OP’s DH made his own bed - no leave etc for 10 years is irrelevant because you kept quiet. There’s no free lunch in life…

Yes but you're saying he doesn't meet the criteria for a subcontractor. I really don't know how else to explain it to you

That is the contractors liability and responsibility, to confirm their subcontractors are appointed meeting the requirements - not the subcontractors!