10 Years and Nothing!!

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

I don’t even know what my AIBU is. My head is spinning. I’ve name changed for this because it could be outing.

I’m furious. My DH has worked for the same man for 10 years. He is a highly skilled tradesman (engineer) His bastard boss refused to take him on as an employee even though he wears the uniform, drives a sign written vehicle, works set hours and doesn’t do any other private work. He is essentially an employee without any of the benefits. The bastard boss hides behind the CIS scheme so that he can get all the benefits of having an employee without the faff. My DH hasn’t had a single day of paid holiday or sick leave for nearly 10 years.

Bastard boss comes to the house after work on Friday and announces that he is closing the company and moving overseas in a weeks time. One week!

He has also made it clear that there will be no redundancy pay. He got the work vehicle evaluated and has said my DH can buy it from him. He showed the evaluation to my DH. He is refusing to give him any discount on it. Not a single penny. I’m furious and heartbroken. I don’t know what we’re going to do.

Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything we can actually do? Ten years of loyalty. Ten years!

[Watchingyou2sleezes]

Other thing I would say is van residuals are high at the moment, we sold a 3 year old one just above what we paid for it new 2 weeks ago so this guy definitely will not be inclined to do any favours regarding buying the van

[DameCelia]

Okaaaay
@LizzieMacQueen @Waitrosedisaster @Watchingyou2sleezes

One more time!
He was on the CIS scheme. Not a subcontractor.

There was no tax avoidance.
There was no financial benefit to him other than ensuring he was paid evenly through the year regardless of contracts.

He wasn't pulling a fast one.

His 'employer' may not have been meeting the rules of the scheme but that did not implicate DH in wrong doing. The only reason it is relevant is that it might mean DH would have a redundancy claim.
Tax returns, IR 35, having your cake and eating it = all irrelevant.

And breathe......

[User112]

Your husband was ok with those terms all along? Why didn’t he move to something more suitable?

[Waitrosedisaster]

@DameCelia

Okaaaay
*@LizzieMacQueen @Waitrosedisaster @Watchingyou2sleezes*

One more time!
He was on the CIS scheme. Not a subcontractor.

There was no tax avoidance.
There was no financial benefit to him other than ensuring he was paid evenly through the year regardless of contracts.

He wasn't pulling a fast one.

His 'employer' may not have been meeting the rules of the scheme but that did not implicate DH in wrong doing. The only reason it is relevant is that it might mean DH would have a redundancy claim.
Tax returns, IR 35, having your cake and eating it = all irrelevant.

And breathe......

You do realise that by its nature CIS (not the CIS scheme as you keep stating) relates to self-employed subcontractors working for a contractor? And subcontractor literally means the contractor delegates to them that they have been contracted for? I can only assume you're the OP with a name change.

As for benefits, he certainly sounds like he was being compensated for being a subcontractor - why else would the OP say he didn't look for work elsewhere because the money was too good?

[WallaceinAnderland]

@User112

Your husband was ok with those terms all along? Why didn’t he move to something more suitable?

That's what I was wondering. Ten years is a long time to stay in a job where you think you're getting ripped off.

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

@DameCelia I’m refusing to engage with those that don’t know what they are talking about and have absolutely no idea how CIS works. Thanks again for trying though 💐

[Waitrosedisaster]

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@DameCelia I’m refusing to engage with those that don’t know what they are talking about and have absolutely no idea how CIS works. Thanks again for trying though 💐[/quote]
OP, throughout this thread you repeatedly demonstrated an extremely poor understanding of business, I'm not sure you're in a position to comment on people's understanding of CIS.

[WallaceinAnderland]

My DH has worked for the same man for 10 years. He is a highly skilled tradesman (engineer) His bastard boss refused to take him on as an employee even though he wears the uniform, drives a sign written vehicle, works set hours and doesn’t do any other private work. He is essentially an employee without any of the benefits. The bastard boss hides behind the CIS scheme so that he can get all the benefits of having an employee without the faff. My DH hasn’t had a single day of paid holiday or sick leave for nearly 10 years.

OP it sounds like you are angry that your dh was not an employee but surely that was his choice? It sounds like he knew he wasn't entitled to redundancy just as he wasn't entitled to paid holiday or paid sick leave. This is why he should have been putting some of his earnings away over all those years.

I'm not sure what is it that you are upset about. If he was unhappy with the terms of his employement, surely he would have looked for something else in all that time?

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/self-employment/what-construction-industry-scheme-cis

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

Directly from HMRC

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

Contractors obligations

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

Again..

[warmfluffytowels]

@User112

Your husband was ok with those terms all along? Why didn’t he move to something more suitable?

Because he liked the money.

[Newkitchen123]

@User112

Your husband was ok with those terms all along? Why didn’t he move to something more suitable?

Because they suited him for ten years.
They don't suit him anymore

[Waitrosedisaster]

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/self-employment/what-construction-industry-scheme-cis[/quote]
We're going around in circles here. Look, you started this thread to say your husband is a subcontractor but knew he should be an employee. You also said that he did not look for other work, or tell HMRC because he was getting paid so well. You have absolutely no leg whatsoever to stand on. None. Nothing. He chose to stay in this arrangement of his own free will. He clearly did not care that his 'employer' was avoiding employer duties because it suited him. You and your husband made that choice. No one else.

Your story has more holes than a crochet blanket. You're claiming previous customers of your husband's 'employer' have given you invoices to show how much the 'employer' was getting paid. You're also claiming the 'employer' is taking money from your husbands wages for expenses AND claiming the same expenses in their company tax return. Then in the next breath you say the company have recently been the subject of a compliance check with HMRC and nothing was found. Do you really think HMRC whilst conducting a full check of the company's books wouldn't notice they were taking money from the subcontractors for expenses and claiming the expenses themselves on the tax return?

This whole victim mentality isn't helping anyone. You have a very weak grasp of the concept of business. You are shocked and angered that the company your husband works for makes more money on the jobs than he does. Bewildered and angry that as a subcontractor, the 'employer' doesn't just throw around free redundancy packages, which they are not required to do.

Your husband made his bed and is experiencing the risks associated with self-employment. I really really hope for his new company's sake that he has a better understanding of business and tax.

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

@Waitrosedisaster my HUSBAND was audited not the company. Why should I engage with you if you don’t even bother to read properly?

[DameCelia]

@GreatBigHooAndToodaloo there's definitely a lack of reading comprehension on this thread!

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

@User112 we weren’t aware that the company was doing anything wrong until the Pimlico plumbing case made the news in 2018. Before that we thought it was just how CIS worked. We didn’t know any different. Just like thousands of other contractors out there. We mulled it over for a while and when we were ready to confront the boss, I had a major haemorrhage and got sepsis after a miscarriage. I stopped working and we couldn’t afford for my DH to lose his job. In 2019 I fell pregnant again. I wasn’t employed at the time. No maternity leave. And then 2020 came along and screwed everyone’s plans. Yes, the money was good but there were other factors at play too. We didn’t sit with this information for 10 years. For the majority of it we thought it was just how it worked.

[Waitrosedisaster]

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@User112 we weren’t aware that the company was doing anything wrong until the Pimlico plumbing case made the news in 2018. Before that we thought it was just how CIS worked. We didn’t know any different. Just like thousands of other contractors out there. We mulled it over for a while and when we were ready to confront the boss, I had a major haemorrhage and got sepsis after a miscarriage. I stopped working and we couldn’t afford for my DH to lose his job. In 2019 I fell pregnant again. I wasn’t employed at the time. No maternity leave. And then 2020 came along and screwed everyone’s plans. Yes, the money was good but there were other factors at play too. We didn’t sit with this information for 10 years. For the majority of it we thought it was just how it worked.[/quote]
Well that's quite the drip feed isn't it. A total different story to the one you gave earlier when someone asked why you kept quiet for ten years:

"he stayed because the money was really good. My DH, as lovely as he is, has never been a leader and is not one to take risks"

This can't be real, you've got to be on the wind up.

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

@Waitrosedisaster Bad grammar? You really are something else 😳 As far as I know HMRC do not ask people what they wear to work or if they drive a sign written van. You claim to know so much about business but you actually think this is the level of detail you need to provide on a tax return?! This is now the third time I’m saying it, my DH has not claimed back on a single expense in 10 years. I really am done with you now, bugger off.

[Vodkabulary]

@Waitrosedisaster you’re starting to come across as unhinged. Why are you attacking the OP
So intensely no matter what she says you’re just determined to insult her and her DH and accuse them of all sorts of things

I’ll
Hold my hands up and say I have no real ideas about self employment rules and this CIS scheme but from reading the OPs and others posts on it you’re posts seem
OTT. Like you just can’t admit you’ve got some details wrong and can’t back down

Also no need to be so bloody rude about grammar lots of people have issues with
Spelling and grammar … just makes you look and
Sound more like a dick

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

@Waitrosedisaster for gods sake! Yes. The money was good. We needed him to stay in his job. We couldn’t afford for him to leave and he is not the type to take risks. Wtf is wrong with that? How is that a drip feed? I didn’t want to share every little detail about my life with you all because I didn’t want to be identified. It really shouldn’t be relevant but you vipers won’t stop and won’t be happy until you push a person over the edge. It’s despicable.

[GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]

@Vodkabulary Thank you! ❤️

[Waitrosedisaster]

[quote GreatBigHooAndToodaloo]@Waitrosedisaster Bad grammar? You really are something else 😳 As far as I know HMRC do not ask people what they wear to work or if they drive a sign written van. You claim to know so much about business but you actually think this is the level of detail you need to provide on a tax return?! This is now the third time I’m saying it, my DH has not claimed back on a single expense in 10 years. I really am done with you now, bugger off.[/quote]
You're making no sense now. Im talking about the standard questions HMRC would ask during the course of a compliance check; tell me about your business/history of the business, when did you start, how do you operate, how do you source work etc. They are the first things HMRC explore as part of a check, I've no idea why you think that would need to be included on a tax return?