AIBU to be really scared of Climate Change

[MagnificentDelurker]

Everything seems to have accelerated with heat dome in pacific causing 1 billion creatures dying to the floods in Germany, etc.
We are running out of time and stuck with politicians that will not lead.

www.motherjones.com/environment/2021/07/heres-what-climate-scientists-are-really-saying-about-this-catastrophic-summer/

It's been said a few times on this thread that we should eat less meat to save the environment, but what then should we eat instead in order to save the environment? Avacados transported from thousands of miles away where it is often grown with little regard for the environment and the local people? Surely what we should be doing is eating locally produced food where we know the food's journey to our plate i.e. what use of pesticides, the welfare standards of the meat etc.

Now times that by 9 to see how much pollution China and India will create if they try to reach the same standard of living as the US.

Which is why far from solving world poverty the planet relies on so much of the population being poor and living in harsh conditions. Trying to raise people out of poverty will kill the planet for all.

We definitely shouldn't be eating beef from industrial feedlots in Australia, that's for sure

The deeply frustrating thing is that we could fix it and it wouldn’t even be that hard. Renewable energy is so cheap now, and storage is so easy that it wouldn’t have to be a dramatic change. It’s not ‘give up your car and go vegan’. We just need to electrify everything.

We need to give up plastic and think about biodiversity as well.

How come 23% have voted YABU?

Nothing we say will really reduce waste and emissions meaningfully unless governments across the world implement drastic policy changes.

The consumption issue will continue without governmental intervention. Yes some lifestyle tweaks may help but again not materially changing the system

@Whoarethewho

Now times that by 9 to see how much pollution China and India will create if they try to reach the same standard of living as the US.

Which is why far from solving world poverty the planet relies on so much of the population being poor and living in harsh conditions. Trying to raise people out of poverty will kill the planet for all.

Wow!! I would rather not fall into echo fascism.

Planet doesn’t rely on many people being poor. Greed relies on that.

We can reduce consumption probably by 75% in the rich world and still conduct full satisfying lives. Most people will probably be happier except those that rely on wealth as forms of control and power.

@Whoarethewho

Now times that by 9 to see how much pollution China and India will create if they try to reach the same standard of living as the US.

Which is why far from solving world poverty the planet relies on so much of the population being poor and living in harsh conditions. Trying to raise people out of poverty will kill the planet for all.

Wow. The truth will out.

Just a thought: perhaps the West could reduce its massive carbon footprint rather than expecting China and India to keep millions in poverty so an American can buy his third SUV and continue eating burgers.

Who cares! I mean why do you actually care. You’ll be dead in 50-70 years

We can reduce consumption probably by 75% in the rich world and still conduct full satisfying lives
You’ve seen how people have behaved in the past year. They simply must have their annual holiday and go out to the pub etc even if it’s risky. There’s been a huge fuss about how unfair it is that life has changed, people are desperate for things to go back to the way they were before, they’re crying about their teens not being able to live the same lifestyles they lived when they were teens themselves. They whinged about altering their lifestyles temporarily for a pandemic so what makes you think they’ll alter them permanently to save the planet and allow a better standard of living for other countries? Can you imagine people accepting that their kids need to have a 75% poorer lifestyle than they had themselves?

@SilverOak

We can reduce consumption probably by 75% in the rich world and still conduct full satisfying lives You’ve seen how people have behaved in the past year. They simply must have their annual holiday and go out to the pub etc even if it’s risky. There’s been a huge fuss about how unfair it is that life has changed, people are desperate for things to go back to the way they were before, they’re crying about their teens not being able to live the same lifestyles they lived when they were teens themselves. They whinged about altering their lifestyles temporarily for a pandemic so what makes you think they’ll alter them permanently to save the planet and allow a better standard of living for other countries? Can you imagine people accepting that their kids need to have a 75% poorer lifestyle than they had themselves?

What can I say? You are correct

But if there is the will to put laws in place that severely tax: fossil fuel, second car ownership, meat sales, all forms of plastic... or any behaviour you want to encourage or discourage, what would happen?

Offset your carbon.
Sponsor reforestation and rewinding.
Cut down on plastic.
Eat vegetarian or vegan.
Drive less.
Use less water.
Sign up for green energy.

I think you can stop reading Mother Jones for a start. They have a clear alarmist agenda and is hardly proof of anything.

Really they are a neoliberal rag who survives on donations from people who want to be told what they should think.

@Manycupsoftea

But if there is the will to put laws in place that severely tax: fossil fuel, second car ownership, meat sales, all forms of plastic... or any behaviour you want to encourage or discourage, what would happen?

They would never get elected (or reelected if they did it mid term)

@ARudeTerriblePerson

How come 23% have voted YABU?

They're the ones that don't believe we are affecting the climate / don't care because they'll be dead by the time it gets really bad and it's future generations that will suffer not them

Saltines, I don't read anything like that, but see enough that is alarming on its own merits. E.g. The artic being waaaaaay over its average temperatures, the fires in Australia and America, the recent heat dome in North America generating its own thunderstorms, the flash flooding in Germany just now, the Amazon no longer being a carbon sink. Even just the temperatures in this country - I remember last year seeing someone replaying a 'dramatic' weather forecast simulation that was meant to be scary at the time it was produced (twenty years ago maybe?) of the exact temperatures we are seeing now in this country. We are literally the boiling frog and in a shifting baseline syndrome way have adjusted as we've gone. In a similar way to the insects disappearing - where are the bug splattered number plates I remember from my childhood?

I care, Talisker, because I have children. I don't want them to live in a world with highly unpredictable weather that generates disaster on a regular basis and climate refugees in their millions as parts of the world become uninhabitable, which at the rate we are going is entirely plausible in their lifetimes.

I came across the concept of wet bulb temperatures this week - apparently we used to think they were impossible but some places have already seen them for an hour or two.

Again though, why can't we have a positive message of change? Why not 'lets radically retrofit all our houses so everyone has cheap heating bills and we generate a ton of jobs in the process'. And 'lets massively improve our cycling infrastructure and pedestrianise' so that people can make healthy choices and town centres are great places to sit out in'. And 'lets clean up our rivers so they are fab places to visit and swim in'. And 'lets stimulate a fantastic social enterprise and co-op movement so that more people can work at places they have a stake in'.

One of the best ways of reducing birth rates in countries where they are still high is in investing in girl's education. Obviously educating girls should be an end in itself but it has the side effect of reducing birth rates. The more educated women are, the fewer children they have on average.

@jasjas1973, I don't think western overconsumption was ever truly sustainable and we will have to adapt rapidly. However, the human race happens to be quite good at that. The aim now is to stop it from getting any worse (the "wet bulb" concept genuinely terrifies me).

The earth is a lot more resilient than we give her credit for. It has been worst-case scenario hot before (50 million years ago) and the temperatures gradually lowered...the only problem is that it takes millennia for it to happen, so we are not talking about a human timescale. Forests grow, die and become coal locking the carbon away into the soil. We just decided to release it all in the course of two centuries, like a crazy teenager burning down the house "because we can".

I agree, the 1990's probably were the tipping point. I don't agree it's hopeless.

@Lockheart the birthrate is dropping in every country. I think it's 1.7 globally, at the moment (depends on who you ask). Experts are more worried about a baby bust than a baby boom. The reason why our population is continuing to grow is due to a longer life expectancy. Unfortunately, that will also be one of the first things to suffer with climate change - older people are at increased risk from heat.

@wherearemychickens - I agree; we need a clear, positive vision to move towards.

For everyone saying "it will never happen"...well, it has before. Look how bad it was in Victorian times, with polluted air, child labour, industrial accidents, poisoned food and massive poverty. Our food, safety, environment and trading standards were not handed down from on high, from a benevolent God. We made them - and the factory owners had just as much clout (if not more) as the corporations of today. There were massive protests about the capping of working hours and the rise of trading standards - all of those impacted profitability.

Indifference and hopelessness will kill us, only if we let them. We have more power than we know.

@TheABC

Its hopeless because there is not the desire for change, such as in the 1800s and early 1900s, people are too comfortable in their bubbles.

Plus the corporations can influence and bend the population to their will, in way that the Victorians could have only dreamed about.

Where i do agree, is it doesn't need to be like this, Green jobs, Green energy, far better eco housing, slightly fewer flights, hydrogen transport (no EV's these are an environmental con) and we could make such a difference but what we have is ambitious targets, many years hence that wont be met.

Trouble is the whole political arena is so toxic and polarised.
George Monbiot is reviled by some. Extinction Rebellion despised by the mainstream media.
Anyone who talks about the threat of climate change is very often dismissed as a hand wringing liberal lefty who doesn't live in the 'real' world. Pretty much like all those idealistic young people who joined momentum etc and hoped that Corbyn was PM material (and I'm not necessarily criticising them).