AIBU to be really scared of Climate Change

[MagnificentDelurker]

Everything seems to have accelerated with heat dome in pacific causing 1 billion creatures dying to the floods in Germany, etc.
We are running out of time and stuck with politicians that will not lead.

www.motherjones.com/environment/2021/07/heres-what-climate-scientists-are-really-saying-about-this-catastrophic-summer/

This worries me so much too. And my 12 year old speaks about how it worries him and I don’t know what to say to him.

Throughout the pandemic much less flights have been flying and this should be a reset that we don’t need world travel. Yet there is talk of helping the “travel industry” and people desperate to get on flights to go abroad on holiday and it just seems a low priority for these things to continue.

@LikeTheOceansWeRise

Well put.

Unfortunately in the pandemic many countries did look up to UK.

I believe if US and UK take leadership many will follow specially if other countries perceive it to be fair and not self serving.

@AutistGoth

Yes. We will. 🥰🥰🥰

It scares me too. But there are a few things that you can do to help.

Eat less meat.
Buy less stuff, Inc single use plastic, but all sorts of stuff generally. Ask yourself whether you really need it.
If you have a cat or dog, try to but recyclable foil trays for food, not pouches.
Get a veg box with local seasonal veg delivered.
Get milk/juice etc delivered in glass bottles
Leave a strip of garden to turn into meadow grass
Try not to waste food
Try not to waste water or electricity (turn taps off whilst brushing teeth etc)
Consider getting a smart meter
Switch energy suppliers to green ones
Consider taking more holidays locally
Sign up to your council's tree planting/re wilding volunteer list. If everyone spent an afternoon a year planting 10 trees, it would make a big difference.

@Turquoisesol

Unless we change the system based on perpetual growth the urgent need to provide for people through jobs will trump the need look after the planet

@Lockheart global fertility rate is 2.4 & is falling, how high do you think it is?

In plenty of countries it's below replacement levels.

"23 nations - including Spain and Japan - are expected to see their populations halve by 2100"

It's really a lot more complicated then people just need to stop having babies.

China have recently introduced incentives to encourage 3 children as the one child policy has caused huge problems.

@Hugoslavia

I agree with you. In current system not buying stuff if it happens at a large scale will result in economic depression and will leave many humans in destitute. We have to severe the link between consumption and earning a living

YANBU. It’s really terrifying.

@properg

Of course, the biggest contribution that DH and I are making for this planet is, both being second generation only children, choosing not to continue our family. We will never be parents.

Was this the only motivation for not having dc?

Already if it wasn't for immigration the population for most "rich nations" would be shrinking.

Why are you questioning what this poster had said?

I hate this. I'm childfree by choice mainly for environmental reasons but I get told on here it can't be for that blah blah blah.

Humans are a cancer on this planet. We are killing it.

Stopping having kids is the biggest effective change. But we won't as we are too selfish.

If nothing else, think what kind of hardship you are likely to be condemning your future children to.

[quote properg]@Lockheart global fertility rate is 2.4 & is falling, how high do you think it is?

In plenty of countries it's below replacement levels.

"23 nations - including Spain and Japan - are expected to see their populations halve by 2100"

It's really a lot more complicated then people just need to stop having babies.

China have recently introduced incentives to encourage 3 children as the one child policy has caused huge problems. [/quote]
Of course it's more complex than that. I don't recall saying it's simple.

Reducing the human population in a sustainable way needs to be one of the main goals if we're to have a hope of fending off devastating impacts from climate change, however. As you've said in your post, currently the global fertility rate is above the replacement rate. It will need to continue to fall.

Let me also say that I would NEVER judge ANYone for having children. Ever. It's a biological urge. I absolutely get that. And it really lifts my heart when I read about people's families on MN.

However, in the case of Mr Autist Goth and I, with so many chronic illnesses and neurological conditions on both sides, it really is for the best that we never have children.

Anyway, I digress.

You can't look at overpopulation just in terms of birth rates. Growing populations in many countries are because of people living longer.

I find it really bizarre that China and India are the immediate "go to" global baddies for most posters. China, especially, seems to be making serious efforts recently to combat climate change.

At the moment, the countries proving to be most recalcitrant are actually Russia, Brazil and Australia - the US is off the naughty bench since Biden got in, happily.

But no country is doing enough, and that's why we have to constantly be pressuring our governments to let them know that we care about this issue. If you don't want to get out on the streets, write to your MP.

Sure, you can do stuff personally, especially in the areas of increasing biodiversity in your garden or even your local area, giving up meat and dairy, not flying etc- but where we are right now, just spreading the word and raising awareness and building a groundswell of concern amongst citizens is probably more valuable.

@properg

You can't look at overpopulation just in terms of birth rates. Growing populations in many countries are because of people living longer.

Ah, I think this is where we disagree. My definition of reducing the human population in a sustainable way includes having fewer babies instead of euthanizing old people... Call me old fashioned but I figure it's more humane that way.

We can't get rid of those we have right now. What we can do is make sure we don't have as many in future.

As you've said in your post, currently the global fertility rate is above the replacement rate. It will need to continue to fall.

But it is falling every year, 2.1 is the replacement level & of course that's an global average. It's higher in poorer countries as more dc mean more workers to help provide for the family. As those countries prosper, rates will fall faster.

As Ive said reducing the human population just by targeting birth rates is nonsense.

@properg

As you've said in your post, currently the global fertility rate is above the replacement rate. It will need to continue to fall.

But it is falling every year, 2.1 is the replacement level & of course that's an global average. It's higher in poorer countries as more dc mean more workers to help provide for the family. As those countries prosper, rates will fall faster.

As Ive said reducing the human population just by targeting birth rates is nonsense.

So how do you reduce the human population, if not by reducing birth rates?

Go on, how do you reduce the population without tackling birth rates in any way and without killing off those which are already here (which I hope no-one is suggesting)?

Well my local authority is doing its bit by narrowing the only direct route across the city, closing a few roads, engineering in congestion to be able to introduce a charge. Oh, and declaring a clean air zone, despite granting planning for building of tower blocks for new hotels and offices, all of which will be air conditioned, with the lights on all day, despite being floor to ceiling windows on every floor. Brill. I read somewhere 60% of emissions in cities come from buildings. So maybe fewer of them is the answer?

We can't get rid of those we have right now. What we can do is make sure we don't have as many in future.

But who looks after the older population? Who are the doctors & nurses caring for them? Who are the tax payers to provide the pensions?

If you have more old people who are economically inactive who funds everything?

The NHS in its current form won't exist when I retire so what happens then?

@SilverOak

I’ll be dead before it all kicks off so I don’t care anyway. And this is why we have the problem We can’t even persuade people to wear masks to benefit those who are currently alive. So why do you think those same selfish people will change their entire lives to benefit people who haven’t even been born yet?

Well yes but the billions of disposable masks being manufactured and discarded (due to outnumber jellyfish in the ocean) aren’t exactly helping the environmental situation.

YANBU. I look at my children, innocent and full of hope, and worry so much about their futures and what hardships and horrors they might face. I can’t bear to think of them suffering. Sometimes I feel guilty for bringing them into this world.

Oh, and of of our clients has a contract to produce circa 20 million plastic bottles for a supermarket, for just one (cleaning) product. Which makes me feel like Im pissing in the wind doing my bit and recycling everything I can.

It’s not just children but pets too. They have a large carbon footprint and are completely unnecessary.

@properg

We can't get rid of those we have right now. What we can do is make sure we don't have as many in future.

But who looks after the older population? Who are the doctors & nurses caring for them? Who are the tax payers to provide the pensions?

If you have more old people who are economically inactive who funds everything?

The NHS in its current form won't exist when I retire so what happens then?

We raise tax rates (as I said in my very first post, it won't be pretty or fun).

We train more doctors, nurses, and carers (govts can incentivise this by funding medical training and paying properly, and reducing funding to other less needed vocations).

It won't be pretty or fun. Everyone will end up poorer.

Your logic would have us continually having more and more children in order to prop up older generations, which is unsustainable.

So how do you reduce the human population, if not by reducing birth rates?

I've not advocated for ever increasing birth rates, I've just pointed out they are falling & they are falling rapidly. Soon they will be globally below replacement rate so how much lower do you want them to be?

It's really something we need to address because it's going to cause huge issues.

Of course I'm not saying kill old people. However we have to look at a more sustainable approach. So take the UK perhaps care in the home should be funded by the user or prescriptions should not just be free. One of my own parents wants to travel abroad when it's their time after working in a care home & never wanting to end up in one. These are difficult conversations like the climate ones but we need to discuss them.

We are doomed.

Look how people reacted to being asked to wear a mask to stop a pandemic. Now imagine how they'll react when asked to forgo their ASOS hauls and plastic tat to stop climate change.

We're too inured in capitalism to ever turn things around.