Do I really want to go down this road?

[ZoinksRun]

Sorry for being vague:
Person A is my boss. Person A made a mistake a year ago that caused me a lot of stress and cost me financially. A couple of months ago person B told me that person A had made the same mistake with them and it had effected them negatively, and impacted their career progression. These mistakes are made through carelessness and a disregard for procedures rather than maliciously.
Person B is taking this further. This might result in person A getting dismissed. Person B wants me to tell them what happened with me last year. I'm not sure I could live with partially responsible for someone losing their job. The mistake has had no repercussions for me now. It's not effected anyone else. Person A is a nice person, we get on well. I understand why person B is angry, as I was this time last year. Should I just say that I don't want to speak to HR?

Is there written evidence of how A's mistake impacted you?

Carelessness and disregard for proper protocol is malicious. Person A knows thencomsequnces as they have done it to you already

No but there is a series of events afterwards which could only be down to her mistake. Also no written evidence that she folllowed the correct procedure.

I would say if you don't then you are partially to blame for the inevitable third person she does the same thing to.

Do you need to actively go to HR or could you not wait unless and until you're asked to provide them with info? I understand the person might want you support if necessary but if its their own personal battle and issue to take up and you'd rather avoid getting into it, I'd consider staying clear unless you can't avoid it.

Can understand not wanting to get involved and embroiled with someone else's battle but on the other hand, my feeling is that Person A has screwed up and affected you already (even if not now and in the long term) then gone on to do the same again to someone else but it has affected their prospects in the longer term.

They are expected to do their job and having a disregard for procedures means falling short. Put yourself back in the same situation you were in when they caused stress and financial problems and think whether you'd have appreciated someone else's support I guess.

You wouldn't be going against a friend as such you'd be honestly giving info about your boss. Hard and I get why you'd be reluctant but it's a case of what you know is the right thing to do.

Well, I'm a bit confused. You say A's mistake caused you stress and cost you financially, then you say it had no repercussions?

How much money are we talking about here? If someone's professional error had cost me significantly I'd be wanting consequences.

I’d feel the same as you. I don’t think ywbu to say no to person B and not to speak to HR. Your issue is dealt with and in the past. Let person B pursue person A if they want to for their own issue. You are NOT responsible for potential future person Cs.

It was to do with a promotion opportunity. She has form for creating jobs for people, not advertising them, not offering them to existing staff nor external candidates. She was mentoring me, I did a lot of extra work on the understanding that when there was going to be a permanent post soon and that I would be considered. She then created the post and gave it to someone else, no interview, no advert. Recently she did the same to my colleague, overlooked her for two promotions and then hired someone else for a role which didn't previously exist. It's not her business and there are HR guidelines she should follow. Other things which are being looked at are her discussing with colleagues why others aren't suitable for promotions, childcare responsibilities ruling them out etc. It may sound like sour grapes but it affected my confidence at the time.

@ZoinksRun

It was to do with a promotion opportunity. She has form for creating jobs for people, not advertising them, not offering them to existing staff nor external candidates. She was mentoring me, I did a lot of extra work on the understanding that when there was going to be a permanent post soon and that I would be considered. She then created the post and gave it to someone else, no interview, no advert. Recently she did the same to my colleague, overlooked her for two promotions and then hired someone else for a role which didn't previously exist. It's not her business and there are HR guidelines she should follow. Other things which are being looked at are her discussing with colleagues why others aren't suitable for promotions, childcare responsibilities ruling them out etc. It may sound like sour grapes but it affected my confidence at the time.

Yeah I think you should at the very least be supportive of the person taking her to task for what sounds like something she should have long since been picked up anyway.

I get that the prospect and thought is a hassle and an arseache for you but she'll keep pulling this shit time and time again unless and until it's checked and stopped.

I would think if asked formally you could share the bare facts without all of your views and opinions about it added, I think that would be reasonable. Supports the other person but doesn't drag you into it more than you want to be.

Yes. Support person B. This is really bad behaviour and not ok. Basically you are saying it’s fine for A to just hire whoever she wants? If you don’t say something you are complicit

You gave your support to person A by not escalating your situation further when they made the mistake with you.

The situation is different now that you're aware the same thing has happened to someoje else.

I'd argue to being a nice person is subjective. We can all be nice people but at the same time we can be dicks. This conversation is about her ineptitude and her behaviour in essentially stringing people along.

The thing is though, if person A just put out a job advert, she could have hired anyone she wanted anyway! She didn't have to hire person B or me, if she'd just gone down the official channels she could have done exactly the same.

I would do the decent thing and tell HR. You don't want to be responsible for someone "losing their job" ie negatively impacting their career, but you're happy to be responsible for your colleague having a negatively impacted career. If you'd told about the mistake when it happened to you, person A might have been dealt with sufficiently that they didn't go on to make a similar mistake with your colleague. Of course you're not actually responsible for either impacted career. Person A is responsible for their own actions and the consequences of those. If they've done nothing wrong then you telling what happened won't have any effect on them will it and if it does have an effect then it's their own fault. I can't see why you'd be happy to shaft a colleague to protect the person who shafted both you and them.

Person A made a mistake a year ago that caused me a lot of stress and cost me financially.

The mistake has had no repercussions for me now. It's not effected anyone else

so, you would blindly go through that stress and financial loss again, because there has been no repercussions for you and tbh why would there be.. this was not your error .., so Im also a bit confused 🌸

Is there anyone you could confide in at work besides Person B ..

just out if curiosity.. how does Person B know this happened to you, do others also know?

@ZoinksRun

It was to do with a promotion opportunity. She has form for creating jobs for people, not advertising them, not offering them to existing staff nor external candidates. She was mentoring me, I did a lot of extra work on the understanding that when there was going to be a permanent post soon and that I would be considered. She then created the post and gave it to someone else, no interview, no advert. Recently she did the same to my colleague, overlooked her for two promotions and then hired someone else for a role which didn't previously exist. It's not her business and there are HR guidelines she should follow. Other things which are being looked at are her discussing with colleagues why others aren't suitable for promotions, childcare responsibilities ruling them out etc. It may sound like sour grapes but it affected my confidence at the time.

Oooft ... ignore my previous post ..

Support Person B

@AmberIsACertainty I'm not really happy to shaft person B but they still have a job, they're able to carry on working towards promotion. It's not great but they're not worse off. If person A loses their job, that will wreck their life. And they have some positive traits.
I will probably speak to HR if they ask me to, and just state the facts.

HR sound sloppy to me OP.
Are they not involved in recruitment?
Are they not concerned about equal opportunities?
Do they no wonder where these new folk have come from when they suddenly appear on the payroll?
Is person A giving these jobs to their own friends/family?
Do they work in Politics?

@Wingedharpy I have wondered that myself. It's not completely new rules, it's more 'we've looked at this persons job and decided it's actually a pay grade above' but the job is actually a completely different job and this existing employee is being sort of shoehorned into it. For example, I've been at an interview and they've said 'you didn't get this one but this job is coming up, you can do that if you want' so the other job doesn't go to advert, and it isn't open to everyone. It's so bizarre.

Ignoring established recruitment policies, gossiping about potential internal candidates’ chances and openly discriminating against employees based on childcare responsibilities (remember, marriage/civil partnership, pregnancy/maternity and sex are all protected characteristics, and ‘childcare responsibilities’ could be argued to function as discrimination on these grounds) - these are not “mistakes”. This isn’t that she got some maths wrong or lost some paperwork. These are deliberate acts and clearly a consistent pattern of behaviour. Just because she’s perhaps pleasant to work with at other times doesn’t mitigate this.

Please support person B. You would NOT be responsible for any outcome. Person A is responsible for her own behaviour.

You would be very unreasonable to protect person A by refusing to tell HR what happened to you in the circumstances you describe.

[quote ZoinksRun]@AmberIsACertainty I'm not really happy to shaft person B but they still have a job, they're able to carry on working towards promotion. It's not great but they're not worse off. If person A loses their job, that will wreck their life. And they have some positive traits.
I will probably speak to HR if they ask me to, and just state the facts.[/quote]
But, who made you God? That's my question. It's not for you to decide whose life gets ruined due to their own actions, is it? You've got a warped sense of responsibility.

I'm glad you're going to support your colleague.

Her behaviour is bad but to say it cost you financially is surely a stretch as you weren't guaranteed the job. She shouldn't be doing it the way she is, but I don't understand why you'd have been happy if she'd just done staged interviews for show and then still given the job to somebody else anyway. The end result is the same.

Don’t think of it as being on this person or that persons side

Think of it as being on the side of the truth

HR needs the full truth to make fair decisions. It’s not your place to withhold or cover up the truth.

If you do, you are colluding with the abuse

I think you're a mug. This person isn't just careless, it's very much intentional.