To think that a child who has never been camping is not necessarily from a ‘deprived’ background

[Urbandweller]

DD’s school organised a camping trip for Y5. DD is younger and didn’t attend but her class teacher went to chaperone. I was chatting with her about it today and she said she was so glad the school was able to organise the trip as so many of the Y5 kids had never been camping and would never otherwise get the chance to go. It was clear that she felt sorry for the children who hadn’t been before and was shaking her head sorrowfully, saying many of them are the same poor kids who have never been to the beach and this is one of the saddest aspects of deprivation...

AIBU to not see the link between camping and deprivation? We’ve never taken DD because it’s my idea of hell, nothing to do with lack of funds!

Camping is (was, before covid) relatively cheap. Maybe she meant kids that don't even get the cheapest camping holiday.

But I wouldn't count not going camping as the bastion of deprivation. A holiday is a nice extra but not essential. If kids didn't have food, warmth and a roof, then theres deprivation but having all the essentials but just not going on holiday, is not deprived.

And then you have the kids that have never been camping because they go on 5* foreign holidays. Those kids certainly aren't deprived.

I truly don't understand, how when I was on the same benefit income, I was more than covered, and yet people on the same, are in such poverty that they can't find £20. With the exception of the initial delay when enrolling for UC (and that's a one off temporary thing) after a couple of months, I don't get how people have "no money". I've been there, I'm not a special case. It was more than enough.

Because they’re bad at managing money, for a variety of reasons, some of them what some people might say is personal responsibility and some which are systemic. Please, open your eyes. Your post sounds very close to benefits bashing, despite having been on them yourself.

Why are you making this all about you and your individual circumstances?

I'm applying my own circumstances because I've been in a low income situation. And the comments being made, that people in those circumstances can't afford in any way to go camping, weren't correct. As I was in that situation. And could.

Just because you don't know anyone without a car in your specific area far from means that most people have a car.

In thirty years, I have not met anyone who doesn't drive. I've lived in 8 non city locations, not a specific area. I'm sure they do exist, but I've never come across anyone without a car. As apposed to my city dwelling friends, where only one out of the lot of them has a car.

Not to mention that a high concentration of people in the UK do live in cities or towns. I grew up rurally and plenty I. The villages etc had no car

Ok. I've experienced the opposite.

When I claimed benefits they fat from paid all my private rent or all my council tax.

Well, they calculate what you get on the average rental price in your area. So you must be choosing a property that is well above that, in order for the amount to "far from" pay it. And c.tax, is virtually wiped out. So was it that you had some benefits and a job as well? In which case, of course your benefits didn't cover all your rent, they taper them in line with your income.

Milk and fruit vouchers stop when the dc reach age 4, that's no help to families of primary age or teen dc.

That's why they are replaced with free school meals after age 4.

Great you got all that - not everyone does

That's my point. Everyone does. I wasn't special or entitled to more. If they don't have their full rent covered then it's not because they are disadvantaged. They've chosen a house in excess of the local average. Or they are working, and have to make a contribution to their rent. Rightly so. Don't get free milk because your kid's 6? No, but let's not point out you get the higher value of FSM instead.

In thirty years, I have not met anyone who doesn't drive. I've lived in 8 non city locations, not a specific area. I'm sure they do exist, but I've never come across anyone without a car. As apposed to my city dwelling friends, where only one out of the lot of them has a car.

Gosh. I can immediately think of half a dozen people without even trying.

Ugh. Camping. Hate it. I don't see how someone not having gone camping has been deprived. That said, I've never given any thought to kids who've never been abroad either. It's not something which DH and I do. We've been abroad once, at my father's request, but we had to take a large loan out for it. (I don't regret it because it was great fun and my father passed away not long after) but I don't feel bad that my kids had never been abroad before then and perhaps won't get the chance again until they are adults themselves.

We do own a good tent. We've were given it years ago but we have never felt a strong enough urge to use the bloody thing.

Your post sounds very close to benefits bashing, despite having been on them yourself.

That's pretty much my point. I could not believe how much money was being thrown at me. That's why I have little appreciation of people who've been given the same but say they have no money. They should have. I mean, I could have bought myself a new wardrobe each month, and said "I've got no money to go camping" but what I mean is I do have the money but bought myself loads of clothes instead, not that I couldn't afford it.

It's like the PP. Well some people don't get the food vouchers you don't get them after age 4.

Correct. And misleading like I was getting extra.

Because the vouchers are replaced by FSM. A two course hot meal, 5 days out of 7, and supermarket vouchers out of term time, which far surpass the value of the milk tokens per week.

But it's this mentality of portraying, "oh I don't get this, I don't get that" but hiding "I get this instead"

It reminds me of my friend. Long term single. Always complaining about it.

"Go online?"
No. It's all weirdos.

"Ok, you could try, just once?"
No.

"Maybe socialise more?"
Can't. Haven't got anyone to look after DS.

"Then get a babysitter?"
I don't want a babysitter I don't know.

"Then get to know one, or one from a professional agency"
No. That will be expensive.

"Then join some clubs or just get out in the day while DS is at school"
What clubs.

"I don't know?! Look it up, see what you like the look of!"
I can't be bothered.

Then don't whine all the time that you're single when you won't do any of the things you could be, that might change that.

Perhaps with the aftermath of covid and the devestating impact of austerity a little reset and clarity regarding 'deprivation' might be hoped for.

1 in 5 kids in this country are on free school meals currently. (FSM)

Many more are probably borderline as families with someone in employment are close to the threshold and many going to foodbanks.

Personally I prefer to speak in terms of economic deprivation, as many who are on a low income number amongst the most cultured and wise people I know.

We don't have a television, and no car. Live in social housing. In an area of multiple economic deprivation.

I have come across different stereotypes on my journey. Early on in my life i taught myself how to cook and there is a big focus on food and nutrition in our home, as opposed to many other things we could have spent money on.

In my DD's class there are kids who have never got on a bus.

I'm shocked by this, and see it as deprivation, as navigating public transport is an essential life skill, surely?

There are many houses without books. Earlier in DD's life we went to the library twice a week and she got through at least six books a week.

As someone has said, camping can be very expensive if you don't have the kit. Or not doable if you don't have a car.

Or perhaps not a real holiday anyway for a parent who is trying to hold everything down and just wants a break from household chores like cleaning.

If I could afford it, give me a hotel anytime.

I hate camping. Ds is 16 and is going away for four days with his army cadets soon. He has never been in the past.

I think it very clear the teacher was referring to Children who will never have the opportunity to go anywhere, because their parents could not care less or can really not afford anything, which you must realise. It was not a dig at anyone who does not go camping. If you have so little empathy to understand this then I am surprised you are at the same school as it must be all around you and you turn a blind eye.

However, if you ask about my opinion of camping. I grew up in a camping / caravanning family so it was completely natural to me, my DH didn’t so I had a hard sell to persuade him to try it. I wanted to give my kids the freedom that I had growing up, visiting all areas of the UK, playing , freedom, and making lots of new friends. Camping is a great leveller for Kids and such fun. However when they got a little older about 10 we stopped and started to do different type of hotel / apartment holidays which we also love love. It is an effort to go camping to set up, pack it all down, but so pleased we did it.

In turn my teenagers now do camping and walking hols with their friends and so the cycle continues I hope.

Ps. I know people who do not drive and get taxis or buses and we live rurally - it costs a lot to run a car and for some completely unaffordable.

YANBU

IMO there two schools of camping: those who camp because because it's cheaper than other accommodation, and those who camp because they see it as 'character building, fun, a great 'experience'. or something like that.

Then there's the rest of us who think a holiday should be about having a little luxury and can't imagine anything worse than sleeping in a cloth building, lying on the floor and not having a private bathroom or toilet for a week.

YANBU. We had a seaside holiday every year but the only camping I ever did as a child was in the back garden. As an adult I don’t get the attraction.

I would have thought the opposite .... we camped loads when our kids were small because we we’re skint!

We later on had some amazing foreign trips but our adult DCs never mention those but have very fond memories of camping.

Maybe by ‘camping’ she meant ‘taking the kids and nanny to our villa/cottage in Cornwall/South of France/Tuscany’ or ‘glamping at Glasto yah, in our renovated gypsy caravan (with shower, toilet and fully fitted kitchen’)?

Because camping in the south of France in a tent with 6 other family members after a 2 day drive from Scotland, night on the ferry on 40* heat is not my ideal of a luxury holiday!

I don't think this is what she means. I think she means "some have never even been camping, let alone taken on any other type of holiday".

She's not meaning kids are deprived unless they've gone camping. She's meaning that some poor kids get taken nowhere and experience nothing.

Not at all OP. I love camping and would have gone every other week with my DS when he was young but he hates it and everything about it.
He dislikes roughing it and would rather stay in a cheap air B&B. He's always been the same.
I loved camping holidays with my aunt and uncle when I was a child.

Oh here we go, go on please tell us poor parents the price of bag pasta and loaf of bread whilst doing price of camping items

Because poor are obviously thick as shit and don’t have a clue how much items cost.

As for the no car posts, when you working in zone 1 London a fucker to drive and when your job means lots of work socialising you tend no need fucking car.

Then you end up in circumstances and where u having to move about keeping your kid safe and roof over head driving goes out fucking window because money runs out. Please fucking tell me how much driving lessons cost and test fees oh rural prives cos poverty - poor means thick a shit

Btw I’ve passed theory

Actually you fuckers saying about poor and camping the teacher actually meant most of these privileges darlings will never have to slum it thanks to middle class arse parents

Did she mean that some of the kids hadn't even been camping. Like, it's sad they haven't been on holiday so at least now they've been camping

@BigSandyBalls2015

I would have thought the opposite .... we camped loads when our kids were small because we we’re skint!

Now imagine being so skint you couldn't even afford that

BrozTito - Moses was quite a long time ago- it's not inconceivable that habits, needs, or preferences, might have changed since then. 😂

Are you really this obtuse?

Experiences like this are often used as markers of deprivation,
because whilst they fall within the normal range of experiences for most people, they are out of reach for those who are more deprived. This is particularly the case if they involve a certain cost, as camping does.

That is not the same as saying that any child who has not been camping is deprived.

You'd rather go away in a caravan or to a hotel or your holiday home? Fine, good for you. That's called personal preference. Some people don't have any options when it comes to taking their children on holiday. This is obviously what the teacher was implying.

Yanbu!! I hate the idea of camping, it's so not my thing! The teacher is ridiculous to think camping is something everyone enjoys and therefore all children would go and if they don't it's because they are deprived

@SleepingStandingUp true!! Camping when my kids were small was very cheap, it’s not these days.

I could not believe how much money was being thrown at me. That's why I have little appreciation of people who've been given the same but say they have no money. They should have.

But it’s not just about the money - the amount of it. Some kids have poor parents with poor parenting skills and live chaotic lives and some of that is systemic - education, ambition, opportunity. You don’t sound at all sympathetic to the fact that it’s hard for some people regardless of the number on the benefit cheque. Poor choices aren’t always just down to individuals doing ‘better’ or trying harder.

Yanbu. Camping with dcs is utterly miserable and requires lots of decent equipment. We did it once 7 years ago and I had a sobbing ds at 2am because his sister was keeping us awake. No holiday and days out is better than camping.