To think that a child who has never been camping is not necessarily from a ‘deprived’ background

[Urbandweller]

DD’s school organised a camping trip for Y5. DD is younger and didn’t attend but her class teacher went to chaperone. I was chatting with her about it today and she said she was so glad the school was able to organise the trip as so many of the Y5 kids had never been camping and would never otherwise get the chance to go. It was clear that she felt sorry for the children who hadn’t been before and was shaking her head sorrowfully, saying many of them are the same poor kids who have never been to the beach and this is one of the saddest aspects of deprivation...

AIBU to not see the link between camping and deprivation? We’ve never taken DD because it’s my idea of hell, nothing to do with lack of funds!

I would rather cover myself in honey and staple my tits to a beehive. However it is safe to say my children are definitely not “deprived” by their lack of camping experience.

BrozTito
If jewish people dont camp how did they manage to wander the desert for years with Moses?

Actually a bit of desert bedouin camping with lovely carpets, cushions, rugs , fire, lamps and canvas tent is appealing. British style -soggy, smelly loo, polyester tent and wotsits - Na

I dont like camping and have no plans to take DD. DH said he might when she's older but I don't see it as being deprived. A kid never being taken taken the beach though maybe is someone in difficult circumstances!

My tent was £60 (Tesco 2018) stove was £10, gas canisters 4 for £10. Sleeping bags £10 each, camping beds were £8 singles, £14 double, pump £8 (works off car). You could use bedding from home, I often do. Yes I admit you need a car but most people outside of London have one because public transport is rubbish. I don't take a torch, one in my phone

As I say- completely unaffordable for many who are living in poverty.
Many familes don;t have thet kind on money to spare.

Camping without a car is so much more expensive to do comfortably, because cheap kit is too heavy to carry and you can’t just take a big air bed and your bedding from home. It’s a huge investment to make if you’re not sure how much you’ll use it or how much you’ll enjoy it.
We were given a tent and use it in the garden, but camping away isn’t an option. Luckily, there are lots of forest school opportunities locally so my children have always done lots of campfire cooking, den building etc. I think if they’d done none of that, then yes they would have missed out.

Once the equipment is purchased you have it forever so the costs come right down

Not everyone might have £100 spare. But one month they may have £40. Another, £20 etc. They don't need to buy everything at once. Then, when they have it, have got it to use repeatedly

And yes, as someone who has lived out of London for 30yrs, I can confirm pretty much everyone has a car! Swap "London" for "big towns/cities". I live on the outskirts of a small town. I would not be able to get a pint of milk without a car. I don't know anyone locally who doesn't have a car. Of my friends in London, I only know one that does.

I spent a period of time, with one DC on benefits, and it truly baffles me how people are in this level of poverty. I almost couldn't believe the amount of money I was just being "given".

They pay your rent, council tax, your water bill is capped, you get free fruit/veg/milk vouchers. I honestly couldn't believe it, and lived no differently (day to day) than when I was in employment. I wasn't treating myself to shoes I didn't need perhaps, but we were very comfortable. I truly don't understand, how when I was on the same benefit income, I was more than covered, and yet people on the same, are in such poverty that they can't find £20. With the exception of the initial delay when enrolling for UC (and that's a one off temporary thing) after a couple of months, I don't get how people have "no money". I've been there, I'm not a special case. It was more than enough.

@speakout

My tent was £60 (Tesco 2018) stove was £10, gas canisters 4 for £10. Sleeping bags £10 each, camping beds were £8 singles, £14 double, pump £8 (works off car). You could use bedding from home, I often do. Yes I admit you need a car but most people outside of London have one because public transport is rubbish. I don't take a torch, one in my phone

As I say- completely unaffordable for many who are living in poverty.
Many familes don;t have thet kind on money to spare.

It’s doable for can less, without a car and camp beds. You might have to save up for the equipment, but then it will last years. Or decades We once worked out what our tent had cost us (bought 2004) it was under 50p per night. Of course you have to pay campsite fees. And they vary wildly. And bus or train fare. It can be done extremely cheaply though

Camping is holidaying in conditions that you wouldn't tolerate at home.

Camping is a dirty word in my house!

YABU to take her comments personally.

You’re overthinking it. You need a car, tent, kit and time to go camping. 2 parents ideally too. There are a lot of children who won’t have access to camping, or any holiday at all, or even a day trip to the beach. No one is suggesting camping is only for the affluent or it’s akin to a skiing holiday or safari, etc. just that it is inaccessible for many. School running camping trips means they don’t need to have parents with free time, car, kit. That’s all. Valid point.

Growing up we camped - with my Dad's siblings and all the cousins by the beach it was so much fun, we cooked food over the fire built every night, telling stories etc, spent days playing on the beach - my rich neighbours didn’t camp but their kids wanted to - so we camped in their back garden - not quite the same but it was still fun.
We went camping to give our kids the experience - great memories - they really enjoyed the whole adventure, they camped with school and scouts - we camped with scouts and with friends and just us - we did other holidays too, created as many experiences for them as we could. I will only do glamping now - I’ve had my fill, and they are old enough now to go camping with their friends.

It’s doable for can less, without a car and camp beds. You might have to save up for the equipment, but then it will last years. Or decades We once worked out what our tent had cost us (bought 2004) it was under 50p per night. Of course you have to pay campsite fees. And they vary wildly. And bus or train fare. It can be done extremely cheaply though

I completely agree with this. There seems to always be this "well some people can't even afford that" mentality. When actually, they could, they just choose to spend their money on other things. If I couldn't afford £200 on new clothes from the shops for DD, I'd spend £20 at a carboot instead. Not say "it can't be done.".

Tents go for no money on FB for sale. And then you've got it for good. You can make a camping trip expensive. Or you can do it for virtually nothing.

DH and I just decided we were going to treat ourselves to bikes, plus a trailer that DTwins can be towed behind on. Nice bikes, "Giant" ones. That's £500+ a pop. Trailer, Halfords, £220.

Except it wasn't. The bikes are immaculate and came off Gumtree. £65 and £85. And the trailer, which is unused, came off FB for sale, and was £45, but they took £25. The £1200+ actually cost us £175. There's a big difference. And I feel there's a lot of deliberate "no one can afford the first" whilst ignoring that the £1000 cheaper option exists.

@Urbandweller You have misconstrued what the teacher has said. You have entirely flipped the causal relationship she was (admittedly clumsilly) trying to express.

Children who are "deprived" (usually meaning economically) are less likely to have experienced certain things. In the case of "deprived" children living in a big city - spending extended time outdoors and in nature.

For "deprived" children living in rural areas I imagine a similarly minded teacher would talk about trips to museums and galleries.

The barriers to a child experiencing something far outside their environment when they are living in poverty are significant. - access to a car, access to equipment, time off low paid work, physical disability, other caring responsibilities (huge correlation between disability and poverty).

She said equivelant to "it is nice to give the children who haven't had the opportunity to at home, an experience of camping" she hasn't said - "the fact these children haven't camped is because they're poor".

She wasn't making a judgement on people who don't camp!

@Whywonttheyhelpme

I would rather cover myself in honey and staple my tits to a beehive. However it is safe to say my children are definitely not “deprived” by their lack of camping experience.

Have they ever been on holiday, even overnight? A day trip to the sea or the mountains?

@TwinsandTrifle

Not everyone might have £100 spare. But one month they may have £40. Another, £20 etc. They don't need to buy everything at once. Then, when they have it, have got it to use repeatedly

And yes, as someone who has lived out of London for 30yrs, I can confirm pretty much everyone has a car! Swap "London" for "big towns/cities". I live on the outskirts of a small town. I would not be able to get a pint of milk without a car. I don't know anyone locally who doesn't have a car. Of my friends in London, I only know one that does.

I spent a period of time, with one DC on benefits, and it truly baffles me how people are in this level of poverty. I almost couldn't believe the amount of money I was just being "given".

They pay your rent, council tax, your water bill is capped, you get free fruit/veg/milk vouchers. I honestly couldn't believe it, and lived no differently (day to day) than when I was in employment. I wasn't treating myself to shoes I didn't need perhaps, but we were very comfortable. I truly don't understand, how when I was on the same benefit income, I was more than covered, and yet people on the same, are in such poverty that they can't find £20. With the exception of the initial delay when enrolling for UC (and that's a one off temporary thing) after a couple of months, I don't get how people have "no money". I've been there, I'm not a special case. It was more than enough.

Why are you making this all about you and your individual circumstances? Just because you don't know anyone without a car in your specific area far from means that most people have a car. Not to mention that a high concentration of people in the UK do live in cities or towns. I grew up rurally and plenty I. The villages etc had no car. When I claimed benefits they fat from paid all my private rent or all my council tax. Milk and fruit vouchers stop when the dc reach age 4, that's no help to families of primary age or teen dc. Great you got all that - not everyone does.

Camping requires quite a bit of organisation. Easier to book a cheap package Costa holiday. Costs probably about the same when equipment and transportation considered. For me, the greatest appeal of camping is the openness, being next to nature, the fresh air, and space. Agree it can be grim if things go wrong though.

You can save up and buy the kit a bit at a time, but you are never going to do that unless you are confident you will enjoy it. That’s exactly why schools offering experiences like this is so important. Children need to try out as many opportunities as possible to learn which ones are important to them, so that their choices and priorities as adults aren’t so constrained.

YABU. Camping is a massive adventure for kids. Some of my strongest happy childhood memories are camping holidays.

Just because it's possible manage basic camping on public transport for a reasonable price doesn't mean many will do that or any other trip or holiday. Those who are suggesting it likely don't have any concept of true deprivation. Not to mention dragging a load of heavy kit on the bus with young dc and cramming in to a £60 Tesco tent that will leak when it rains and buying expensive basic food from a campsite shop because you not have a car to drive to the supermarket once you're there, all sounds pretty miserable. We've just got back from a fabulous camping trip but every inch of the car was occupied and everything we brought was needed and used.

Sounds like she was making the assumption that its a shame if kids don't get that experience, as with many other broad life experiences. Mine is that most little kids really love camping, and it's a fairly special experience, exciting, sleeping out etc. So it's great if they can get that experience if it's not available at home. Personally I loved it as a kid/Guide, and took my kids camping as a single parent which was hard work but I had a car and the kit so was fortunate. Generally it strikes me as cheap once you're set up, assuming car. I still like the outdoor aspect, but campsites can be pretty hellish and noisy so the lack of sleep has reduced my interest in middle age. But I'd have no problem with teacher noting that, like other experiences (such as getting into the countryside from cities), its good to see kids getting a taste of as broad a life as possible and if school or clubs can do that, great.

I imagine she probably meant those children have never been on any kind of holiday/ trip - camping or otherwise. She probably sees camping as slightly more accessible to less wealthy families. That is all.

We enjoy camping, albeit we have a caravan and not a tent. It is more affordable - particularly this summer when the price of self catering accommodation has sky rocketed. Totally get it's not everyone's idea of a holiday. But I wouldn't get worked up about comments that are clearly directed at children who are actually deprived, rather than just deprived of camping experience.

You're all seeing it from your non-deprived view. Yes of course lots of non-deprived kids have never been camping-they've been on all inclusive to the Maldives etc.

But most deprived kids absolutely wouldn't get the opportunity to go camping without school trips. It's cheaper than a foreign holiday, but it's still not actually CHEAP. And as a teacher, to see kids having that sort of carefree freedom and fun that they wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity for? It's bittersweet for sure.

Ps that's in absolutely no way a dig at the parents at all.

Oh and fwiw our campsite was £180 for 4 nights.